Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,456
# 11
04-23-2013, 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atatassault View Post
I'm all for classic RSE Romulans, but forcibly assimilating another Romulan was somewhat disturbing. I definitely would not want to be part of the Tal-Shiar.
I'd speculated back when the FE came out that Hakeev wasn't a liberated drone, but an "artificial" one, and that his missing eye was a result of a failure in the process (a liberated drone without an eye would probably be left with their implant, but a failure could have left him unable to be fitted with one). I think this scene lends some credibility to my theory.

It also sets apart why what the Tal Shiar is doing with Borg tech is bad yet half of Starfleet is running around with borg tech sticking out of their ship at odd angles.

Last edited by hevach; 04-23-2013 at 05:10 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 987
# 12
04-23-2013, 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
And this a good thing. The fact that people feel strongly about this demonstrates that it was an effective method to underline how evil the Tal Shiar are. If there's a single thing that the Romulan campaign gets right where the Fed and KDF campaigns fall flat on their face, it's the issue of emotional attachment. The Romulan story gives us identifiable people in bad situations that we can feel empathize with.
In some respects, I can't stand to play Klingons either. Selling Prisoner as Slaves/Working them to death, wanton destruction, and the like are also hard to stomach. And we have Admiral T'nae's trigger happy "preemptive" invasion of Romulan space.

Though, It may be the current Tal-Shiar is doing what it does due to Hakeev's leadership. In TNG and DS9 It seemed like your standard, partially dubious intelligence organization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hevach View Post
I'd speculated back when the FE came out that Hakeev wasn't a liberated drone, but an "artificial" one, and that his missing eye was a result of a failure in the process (a liberated drone without an eye would probably be left with their implant, but a failure could have left him unable to be fitted with one). I think this scene lends some credibility to my theory.
I hadn't heard/thought of that before. It makes a lot of sense.
Quote:
It also sets apart why what the Tal Shiar is doing with Borg tech is bad yet half of Starfleet is running around with borg tech sticking out of their ship at odd angles.
Yeah, it struck me odd that in the Undine arc, you admonish the Romulans for using Borg Tech, but then 6 months later, cryptic added the Borg set...
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 893
# 13
04-23-2013, 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atatassault View Post
In some respects, I can't stand to play Klingons either. Selling Prisoner as Slaves/Working them to death, wanton destruction, and the like are also hard to stomach. And we have Admiral T'nae's trigger happy "preemptive" invasion of Romulan space.

It is in line with how the Klingons acted on the shows though. I think Cryptic did a decent enough job making it feel like a Klingon storyline while giving the payer enough leeway for charater self-interpruetation. LoR all but writes your character for you by contrast, which is not soemthing I am terribly thrilled about. it's all but impossible to roleplay anything resembling a 'traditional' Romulan-all the dialogue chocies are so very strongly ...opinionated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atatassault View Post
I hadn't heard/thought of that before. It makes a lot of sense.Yeah, it struck me odd that in the Undine arc, you admonish the Romulans for using Borg Tech, but then 6 months later, cryptic added the Borg set...

I always choose the option to let them go with the borg technology, it seemed so hypocrytical to go picking on the Romulans, who have been stomped on so completely ever since Nemesis (and to a lesser degree, DS9) for doing something that the Federation has been doing since Voyager. the new storyline seems to be continuing the double standard angle though. I seem to remember on the borg cube level the Romulans research being phrased specifically as 'reckless' and basically wrong solely fr the reason that the Rommes were doing it...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 987
# 14
04-23-2013, 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by catoblepasbeta View Post
for doing something that the Federation has been doing since Voyager.
Remember, that was just Voyager, and Janeway flipped her morals and reasons (She'd use X reason to go against Y situation one episode, but then use X reason to with Y situation in another episode) often enough to make fence sitters jealous.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 242
# 15
04-23-2013, 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
And this a good thing. The fact that people feel strongly about this demonstrates that it was an effective method to underline how evil the Tal Shiar are. If there's a single thing that the Romulan campaign gets right where the Fed and KDF campaigns fall flat on their face, it's the issue of emotional attachment. The Romulan story gives us identifiable people in bad situations that we can feel empathize with.
For me, Mind Games was a good attempt, but fell far short of the revulsion I felt during Divide et Impera. "Revulsion?!" you might ask (go on, I dare ya). Yes, my stomach was churning with disgust through it, though perhaps not quite for the reason Cryptic intended. Yes, I thought it sounded fishy from the start, but I had two admirals telling me to Just Do It, and so (with reservations) I started in.

(BTW, consider this a Divide et Impera spoiler warning. If you haven't played it yet, DON'T read past here.)

Now, when I did this the first time, I don't know if the AI was programmed differently then, or I was just too inefficient at fighting to cope with it, but Romulan medics healed and rezzed their allies. A LOT. To the point where, if a group had two medics, it was almost impossible to win a fight without vaporizing the Romulans one at a time so they couldn't be rezzed, and I wasn't really set up to do that in a reliable fashion. I finally hit upon a tactic that worked, though. If there was one medic, it was easy enough to assign all my BOffs to take him down with my assistance. If there was two, I'd sic all my BOffs on one, and then I'd go up and repeatedly club the other, knocking him down over and over so he couldn't heal or rez the first medic; once the first medic was down, I'd bring over the BOffs to finish stomping this one, and then finally take on the rest of the group.

The problem in Divide et Impera, of course, was that, for some reason, there were a lot of medics and scientists around. And as the story progressed, and our reason for attacking the station grew more and more suspect, I had a harder and harder time doing it...standing over a doctors clubbing them repeatedly when all they wanted was to get up to heal, to save their colleagues, their friends, and I kept swinging, and swinging, and swinging while they lay there helpless....

dammit. >_<

By the end of the mission, knowing that I had, in cold blood, just massacred a station full of doctors, I was ready to throw up. I've never been affected by a mission like that before, and sadly, Mind Games couldn't match up. Nice try, but...

(Now, of course, I'm much better at wholesale slaughter on ground maps, so I can get an alt through DeI with minimal conscience pangs, but it still kinda haunts me).

Last edited by hyouki; 05-16-2013 at 10:45 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,460
# 16
04-23-2013, 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
For me, Mind Games was a good attempt, but fell far short of the revulsion I felt during Divide et Impera.
That was a great story. Horrifying. Thought provoking. Amusing (am I a terrible person?). It had everything!

I guess in a way the Borgification during "Mind Games" could be worse, in that all you as the player do is push some buttons and things happen. Whereas your story relates a more hands-on approach. Your direct actions had direct consequences. It's said that to kill with a knife is much harder than to kill with a gun for exactly this reason. The Borgification is indirect, things happen by your will and agency but not by your hand.

But I wonder how far it's really wise to take this mission. I mean, sure it could be written to be truly awful... But aren't we here to play games and have fun? STO isn't exactly a hardcore title. I think our target here is "disturbing" rather than "psychologically scarring".

And now, kittens.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 27
# 17
05-16-2013, 02:35 AM
Maybe it depends on the character of your character.

I stopped Mindgames in the middle. I won't be doing it at all on Holodeck.

I like to think that every toon is a spin off of me, and I take what they do personally.

Firing phasers - I'd do that. Putting a Borg implant on someone kicking and screaming - never.

Playing a mission where you literally have no choice but to do what you would not - no.

Maybe I'm the only one who would say this. But I think I'm not.

Luckily, there is the "Skip" option.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 155
# 18
05-16-2013, 02:46 AM
I really liked just how creative the Devs were with this mission.

All the sabotage methods were extremely funny. First there was the fake borg drone. Then there was the fire...after disabling the automatic fire suppression system and hiding the extinguisher. Next was the gas. And probably the funniest was repairing the Borg walker and then watching everyone chase it around while freaking out.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,317
# 19
05-16-2013, 02:55 AM
There are two accolade titles:

Hakeev's Puppet - you do everything they say
Defiant - you resist doing everything they say (yes, you're still forced to do it)
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,045
# 20
05-16-2013, 06:09 AM
I loved "Mind Games" because it reminded me a lot of similar stories in TNG and DS9, such as "The Mind's Eye" and "Whispers", only darker. It's not often that a mission in a game can be darker than something you see on TV!

Needless to say, watching that ship collapse into the singularity felt really good. I just wish Tovan had given me a minute to watch it burn before reporting.
Say NO to mandatory Arc!

Last edited by psycoticvulcan; 05-16-2013 at 08:18 AM.
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