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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 41
04-24-2013, 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Cryptic makes money off of people gearing their vessels for PvP. If that gear did not matter, Crypic would not make money off of people gearing their vessels for PvP.
I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Cryptic makes money off people being in the game bottom line... find ways to keep butts in the game they make money.

According to Cryptic there is almost no one spending any money on PvP.

In all reality... things like leader boards can't exist until something like this happens.

That type of thing right now would be completely meaningless as the game is a mess.

Look at what has happened with boot camp.

Add a system like this... create leader boards... create actual in game tournament systems. (where we not promised that long ago lol)

Do that and the number of people around will = money for cryptic... people don't only pvp.

Also you CAN have money generation through... ship sales. (ie lockbox ships even minus there consoles are still lockbox ships) Fleet ships are still a mover... Cstore ships are still a mover.

What are we talking about removing from PvP exactly that is making them so much money ?
Lobi consoles ?

Lets get real the sales on those will be barely impacted... and if they manage to cater to a segment of players they have NOT had in game at all up until now I would bet all the money in my bank accounts that the PvP pop will grow by more then 20% easy... which will more then offset any losses the lobi store takes.

I don't see how bringing new players... and returning old ones to an active players status looses them money... if all they are loosing is sales on lowbie ships for consoles and lobi crystal gear.

People are still going to want all the ships.

PS if they have to do it... its pretty simple... the purple vendor gear would cost both merits and Dilithium... there you go built in grind mechanic satiated. (in fact seeing as we would all need new gear... you could expect a very large bump for the first few months as people gear there ships up the first time)
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.

Last edited by antoniosalieri; 04-24-2013 at 08:26 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 260
# 42
04-24-2013, 08:28 PM
Quote:
However IF... we had a PvP paper doll ship... you select your PvP ship just like you select your shuttle... and when you map load an arena or a cap and hold or some new game type I hope... you load into your PvP ship.

That ship should have nothing but Hyper/Combat/impulse and Covarient/resistant/standard shields and the standard deflectors.

No Fleet gear... No Rep gear... No rep passives... no lobi Gear...

Make Blue weapons and gear of every type purchasable from a vendor with a -p on the end meaning they are only for use on the PvP paper doll. Make this gear Free or at the most like the cost of pve junk gear from the vendors.

Create a PvP merit system... or simply bring back the old currency.

Create another vendor that sells purple weapons and gear. (standard 3 mod stuff)... and sell those for merits. Set it up so every 2-3 matches you could pop in a purple weapon... and after a night or two you could grab a purple shield engine what ever.

At that point I think we would all see just how balanced the Boff Skills really are... and how un game breaking the doffs are on there own.
Balance eh? go play Call of Duty if you want balance- or take your pick of game that has ZERO variety.

I have been playing MMO's since ULTIMA ONLINE back in 98' - and I have played about 90% of the MMO's that followed ---- NEVER have I read about such a resistance to change in a game before- period

guys, seriously, the past is GONE, let it gooooo

its time to embrace a more complex, more rich pvp experience- were the build matters, and the gear matters- VS in the past it was simply about skill (cause everyone had the same $hit)

Its time to go the way of the dinosaurs... or evolve.

(besides, who does't LOVE the look of a romulan warbird, comon, any fan of the TNG show loved that ships)
Just because it is not a cookie cutter escort does not mean it should not be in the game.

Win or lose, in the end it does not reflect on who you are as a person, in the end it is how you treat others that really reflects who you are.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,546
# 43
04-24-2013, 08:36 PM
Lobi Gear.
Lockbox Gear.
Fleet Ships.
C-Store Ships.
Dilithium bought gear (whether special item, Fleet, or reputation - folks couldn't convert Dil to Zen unless there are those looking to convert Zen to Dil).
DOFFs.
BOFFs.
Consider even EC items off the Exchange, eh? How do many folks generate EC? Either through selling items they can sell acquired through the avenues above or through selling Keys/FSMs.

You can complete ESTFs with whatever gear you obtained through running missions. You can do it in your RA ship. You can do it with whatever miscellaneous loot you picked up along the way and with mission rewards.

Take that ship into PvP.

Then look around at the other ships.

I've never understood Cryptic saying PvP doesn't generate revenue...unless it's a case that if the ship is even used for 0.00000001% PvE then it is not considered PvP revenue.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 44
04-24-2013, 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beameddown View Post
Balance eh? go play Call of Duty if you want balance- or take your pick of game that has ZERO variety.

I have been playing MMO's since ULTIMA ONLINE back in 98' - and I have played about 90% of the MMO's that followed ---- NEVER have I read about such a resistance to change in a game before- period

guys, seriously, the past is GONE, let it gooooo

its time to embrace a more complex, more rich pvp experience- were the build matters, and the gear matters- VS in the past it was simply about skill (cause everyone had the same $hit)

Its time to go the way of the dinosaurs... or evolve.

(besides, who does't LOVE the look of a romulan warbird, comon, any fan of the TNG show loved that ships)
Not sure how the build wouldn't matter anymore. lol you still choose your weapons your gear... we simply don't have PvE set gear power creep turning the game over every month.

Hey its not my idea... it works in game from other devs with great success... this wouldn't be a MMO first. lol

Also what are you talking about with the warbird... all the Romulan ships / cstore ships / fleet ships ect would be welcomed in pvp... its the Omega/Borg/Maco/KHG consoles and other junk that would stick to borg cleaning duties. lol

Whatever there isn't much point in debating it... Cryptic isn't going to do anything major to PvP ever anyway... and all the serious pvp players will continue to pvp elsewhere.

In all seriousness... I don't suggest this for myself... I sit on my fat as% all day being paid to sit here... I have multiple toons that have every possible gear combo I can dream up... and if I don't have it I whip out 20-50mil EC out of my war chest and buy it....

However for example... last night after a typical Pug Stomp I PMed a bit with a new kid on the other team... I felt bad for him and bought him 15 million ec worth of gear and gave him some pointers. Frankly the gear wasn't really his issue... but I could tell talking to him... he was NOT going to keep pvping after getting his teeth kicked in a few nights in a row... it was easy to say my gear sucks I guess I better pve till I can gear up. Now he can focus on in fact learning to pvp in STO.

We need to remove road blocks to new players pvping with us.... Yes boot camps and the like do a great job of that... still I bet there are a ton of even those guys that will point to gear as the issue... we know its not. However when the high end gear takes over a month to grind IN PVE mind you... and the stats are as good as they are its no wonder newer players blame gear first.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 260
# 45
04-24-2013, 08:50 PM
Quote:
Lobi Gear.
Lockbox Gear.
Fleet Ships.
C-Store Ships.
Dilithium bought gear (whether special item, Fleet, or reputation - folks couldn't convert Dil to Zen unless there are those looking to convert Zen to Dil).
DOFFs.
BOFFs.
Consider even EC items off the Exchange, eh? How do many folks generate EC? Either through selling items they can sell acquired through the avenues above or through selling Keys/FSMs.

You can complete ESTFs with whatever gear you obtained through running missions. You can do it in your RA ship. You can do it with whatever miscellaneous loot you picked up along the way and with mission rewards.

Take that ship into PvP.

Then look around at the other ships.

I've never understood Cryptic saying PvP doesn't generate revenue...unless it's a case that if the ship is even used for 0.00000001% PvE then it is not considered PvP revenue
.

without a doubt, its pvp that drives alot or the MAJOR revenue for the game- cause comon, who would really grind this long, buy this much, to just what LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! role stop the computer

comon,

I took Kirkinator from 1-50 in under 2 weeks just doing doff missions and occasionally doing the mirror event- then hoped into elite STFs with YES off the shelf c-store ship white weapons and destroyed the computer- no special nothing

in the end, the end-game PVE content in this game is a joke (not a joke, just really not that hard) IF-------------------------------- IF. there is PVE fans out there grinding sales up ITS FOR THE LOVE of STAR TREK (they want a "look" of their ship, they want to buy/fly the ship they saw in a show or read in a book, they want to sample what the expaneded universe has to offer of the star trek genre etc)
Just because it is not a cookie cutter escort does not mean it should not be in the game.

Win or lose, in the end it does not reflect on who you are as a person, in the end it is how you treat others that really reflects who you are.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 46
04-24-2013, 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Lobi Gear.
Lockbox Gear.
Fleet Ships.
C-Store Ships.
Dilithium bought gear (whether special item, Fleet, or reputation - folks couldn't convert Dil to Zen unless there are those looking to convert Zen to Dil).
DOFFs.
BOFFs.
Consider even EC items off the Exchange, eh? How do many folks generate EC? Either through selling items they can sell acquired through the avenues above or through selling Keys/FSMs.

You can complete ESTFs with whatever gear you obtained through running missions. You can do it in your RA ship. You can do it with whatever miscellaneous loot you picked up along the way and with mission rewards.

Take that ship into PvP.

Then look around at the other ships.

I've never understood Cryptic saying PvP doesn't generate revenue...unless it's a case that if the ship is even used for 0.00000001% PvE then it is not considered PvP revenue.
I agree I believe PvP players account for a huge amount of in game revenue... there is no way for Cryptic to honestly know if the person grinding there rep to 5 in PvE is doing it with a PvP build in mind or not.

Still I think we CAN leave lots of stuff turned on that makes them money in PvP

Fleet ships can stay of course
Lobi store ships
Cstore ships
Lockbox ships

All the ships make them a ton of money and they should all stay I am not saying we should all jump in 1 of 3 escorts and 1 of 3 cruisers ect. lol

DOFFS should stay to... I like the system... I don't think there is any issues with them in pvp.

Dilthium purchased gear... ya I can see people being annoyed at having to repurchase gear... however Cryptic doesn't really care about annoying use with stuff like that do they ? Honestly all they have to do is time it with a move to MK XIII gear lol... release MK XIII shields / engines and weapons... and make -p purple versions that cost both D and PvP merits.

They can set it up to make a wack ton of money...

What would need to be left out...

Low level consoles... and perhaps even ship consoles... allow the lockbox ships but not the consoles... I think that would be ok.

Disable fleet rep passives and skills... I think this is the biggest one... they are obviously going to keep adding more and more of this stuff... and frankly new players are screwed. Imagine 6 months from now with Rom/borg/Neuc/PvP/X ... that will be 5 reps... all with one month + grinds to get tier 4 for 2 Space passives each... thats 10 passive space abilities that new players will be down for over a month.... Can you imagine starting a new game and not being able to pvp in it for 1-2 months because you are just so far behind on your pve grind that you are not competitive. Its a bad joke... and all this rep stuff is going to kill the long term chances of any pvp resurgence in this game imo.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 260
# 47
04-24-2013, 09:03 PM
Quote:
Frankly the gear wasn't really his issue... but I could tell talking to him... he was NOT going to keep pvping after getting his teeth kicked in a few nights in a row... it was easy to say my gear sucks I guess I better pve till I can gear up. Now he can focus on in fact learning to pvp in STO.
here is something to take into account buddy, MOST and that is MOST players DO NOT LIKE TO LOSE---

thats is right, LOSE

they log on, they spent weeks building it, they spent alot of ec or dil, or lobi, or real work bucks to get it annnnnnnnnddddd they join a cue and lose.

....


what then?

how do you help those that see losing in a pvp match as "this sucks"?


really, thats what we are talking about here, those that cannot cheer on the challange of it all

those that can not face faliure and welcome it and learn from it

those that can not have a "fun time" even if they lose

HOW do you really build a GAME that makes everyone a winner?!?

comon, at some point and time you gotta let go those "types" of players, the guys that qq's half way through a match when victory was just at the edge of their grasp if they would only work together and THEN have have a VICTORY to REALLY remember!

I dont know about the rest of you, I LIVE AND PLAY for those matches, those we suck, we are losing, COME BACK KINGS!!! matchs, THATS why i still play, THATS why i spend time reading forums, THATS why i spend hours of grinding, THATS why i love the folks I fly with, THE COME BACK MATCHES, not the roll STOMP matches, thats 15-0, my god

I feel its just a difference in mentality of what it is to challange tactic vs another team- challegene,
Just because it is not a cookie cutter escort does not mean it should not be in the game.

Win or lose, in the end it does not reflect on who you are as a person, in the end it is how you treat others that really reflects who you are.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 48
04-24-2013, 09:08 PM
I hardly think putting everyone one on a mostly level playing field is making everyone a winner...
If you are saying you are going to loose more cause you don't have tet glider or borg heals ect well then perhaps your not as talanted as you believe. (I know thats not how you meant it)

Honestly I never understood the thinking of the "PvP elite" types that want to keep there PvP gear... or there long grind gear. Saying that we ground it out we deserve the advantage.

Heck the real pvper I know will go in with Mirror ships... or hell some of them even whip out the tier 4 and 3s... to give themselves a challange.

Having everyone = is fine with me... yes some of the PvE kids won't be able to tank me for 3 min with there fleet shield thats true... but I won't be able to tet glide em either... in any event everyone will have access to the same level of gear... which I think is needed.

You wouldn't let a 4 time World Boxing champ wear gloves that are 4 pounds heavier cause he earned em would you ?

Anyway bottom line I think we should be doing everything we can to get new players pvping and getting good at it... removing the appearance of and the truth of any gear divide is good for everyone as I see it.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 260
# 49
04-24-2013, 09:12 PM
Quote:
Disable fleet rep passives and skills... I think this is the biggest one... they are obviously going to keep adding more and more of this stuff... and frankly new players are screwed. Imagine 6 months from now with Rom/borg/Neuc/PvP/X ... that will be 5 reps... all with one month + grinds to get tier 4 for 2 Space passives each... thats 10 passive space abilities that new players will be down for over a month.... Can you imagine starting a new game and not being able to pvp in it for 1-2 months because you are just so far behind on your pve grind that you are not competitive. Its a bad joke... and all this rep stuff is going to kill the long term chances of any pvp resurgence in this game imo.
I still see all the rep systems as optional

IF i was a new player to the game, I would blunder through trying to raise every thing at once,

BUT DO NOT FORGET- the master plan for cyptic is to "ADD" "CHANGE" "SOON" a new pvp system into the game that may add a form a gear ranked equipment/games won metric of somekind, can you imagine it? -- the end of roll stopping noobs, you are paird up against equally geared and win/lose players as yourself? can you imagine it as a new player?> going up against other players totally equal to your player skill in pvp? that would be perfect in my eyes
Just because it is not a cookie cutter escort does not mean it should not be in the game.

Win or lose, in the end it does not reflect on who you are as a person, in the end it is how you treat others that really reflects who you are.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 50
04-24-2013, 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beameddown View Post
I still see all the rep systems as optional

"see" such a relative term when you are talking about reputation thingy

you see ,since that rep thing no one sees anytihng ,everything is cloaked/confused ...its like fight between blind people ,epic and pathetic at the same time lol
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