Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 20
# 1 Aux2Batt Nerf Rumor
04-24-2013, 08:48 PM
There's a rumor running rampant that aux2batt will share its cooldown with EPtX abilities. It's not documented anywhere and aux2batt cruiser pilots are freaking out especially myself, so someone please confirm if this is coming or not and we can put it to rest.

Personally I pretty much fly only aux2batt cruiser builds and am not happy considering the prospect of all my builds becoming nonviable for PvP. I run my 2 aux2batts on keybinds, so if this change occurs it would mean having to keep track of an extra 2 abilities while deciding if I will need EPtS in the next few seconds, thats just ridiculous, and really not necessary considering the state of cruisers. What does the auxiliary system have to do with emergency power that it would require a shared cooldown? It doesn't make sense so I think its just a BS rumor, but if its true...
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 793
# 2
04-24-2013, 09:10 PM
It shouldn't do, its an Aux system not an EP.

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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 3
04-24-2013, 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by defbond7 View Post
There's a rumor running rampant that aux2batt will share its cooldown with EPtX abilities. It's not documented anywhere and aux2batt cruiser pilots are freaking out especially myself, so someone please confirm if this is coming or not and we can put it to rest.

Personally I pretty much fly only aux2batt cruiser builds and am not happy considering the prospect of all my builds becoming nonviable for PvP. I run my 2 aux2batts on keybinds, so if this change occurs it would mean having to keep track of an extra 2 abilities while deciding if I will need EPtS in the next few seconds, thats just ridiculous, and really not necessary considering the state of cruisers. What does the auxiliary system have to do with emergency power that it would require a shared cooldown? It doesn't make sense so I think its just a BS rumor, but if its true...
This isn't the case on tribble, and Aux to batts already shares CD with Aux to Damps and Aux to SIF. (And if you run 2x Aux to Damps you can't realistically use either of these at all)

It also means you have by and large, really poor healing for yourself.

It can be very powerful, but it's definitely not without its downsides.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 204
# 4
04-24-2013, 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
This isn't the case on tribble, and Aux to batts already shares CD with Aux to Damps and Aux to SIF. (And if you run 2x Aux to Damps you can't realistically use either of these at all)

It also means you have by and large, really poor healing for yourself.

It can be very powerful, but it's definitely not without its downsides.
Indeed. I vaguely remember before I switched to a A2B build, it used to be that it shared a CD with EPtS and EPtW. I don't remember what the shared CD was, but it was enough for me to determine that at the time, A2B wasn't viable in my build (at the time).

However currently, A2B only shares cooldown with Aux2SIF and Aux2Damp. If they change it back to it's original state, it would be devastating to both my Assault Cruiser Refit and JHEC. Not only that, but people have invested EC in the millions just to make the A2B build effective (3 rare/very rare Technicians).

Amongst the 3 departments, Engi boff abilities trip over each other the most. Tact. Boffs could stack torpedo buffs on top of beam buffs and maneuver buffs effortlessly. Almost all Sci abilities operate side by side. But when you use Engi skills, all EPtX abilties trip over each other and Aux abilities trip over each other.

If EPtX and Aux abilities all trip over each other, everyone in a cruiser would have to resort back to double-double stacking abilities (already ineffective by itself now) and other ways to survive a tacscort alpha strike - thus effectively screwing over all cruisers.

Aceton Beams have too long of a CD to be effective and is only single target, 130 degree arc (90 on holodeck). Warp Plasma is no good, as it is hard to land. Even if it does hit, everyone trolls all over it with APO and/or HE. Boarding Parties are too slow and are easily removed by Tac. Team...not to mention a 1:30 base CD (so a shut-down cruiser is not effective either). RSP is an "oh sh*t" ability that only works every 2:45. DEM doesn't help survivability. Engi team has no synergy in the place of the double tact team builds.

Bottom line: All tanking cruisers are getting nerfed with no way to compensate, should the Aux2Bat nerf come to pass.

[Continued...]

Okay. Fine. Let's think outside the box. If we can't hull/shield tank with a cruiser, can we make it a DPS/speed tanking cruiser like an escort? Let's take 2 copies of EPtW and a copy of APB. Because EPtW will interfere with all other EPtX abilities, we can't use EPtEngines to do damage and run around at the same time. So our other option is Aux2Damp. However, it would share a 10 second CD with other copies of Aux2X. So we have speed and damage...and some healing if we throw in Aux2SIF. So far so good. However, our tanking would truly suffer since we can no longer rely on EPtS. HE and TSS would have to suffice for this build (and Tact. Team).

However, is this build effective? Cruisers don't exactly have the same defense rating as an escort, nor the means to do as much damage. Without EPtS, I'm feeling a bit naked here...

Okay. So let's say I'm uncomfortable with the idea of a speedy DPS cruiser. Is it possible to build a sheer crowd control cruiser? As the saying goes: "If I can't have [speed, DPS, etc.], they can't have it either!"

Let me just say right now that I have indeed tried out this build before. A cruiser dedicated to double Warp Plasma and tractor beaming in between. It was amazing because during the initial tests, it caught my fleetmates by utter surprise. Their escorts were completely immobilized by the warp plasma over and over again. A tractor beam in between the warp plasma gave me the opportunity to chain these abilities together to devastating effect.

However, like all good things, it didn't last. Soon, the escorts fell in line with abilities such as APO and HE. Some even gravitated towards Polarize Hulls...all of which made them immune to movement control effects...following which (luckily), I only had my tanking abilities to fall back to. Other than that, there was no way I could kill them.

I suppose the second bottom line is that: we're all complaining about these Engi Boff changes because the ships that use Engi boffs (namely cruisers) have nothing to fall back on after tanking. Optimizing weapons sacrifices too much survivability and crowd control for powers nowhere near escort levels. Optimizing movement crowd control sacrifices damage, speed, and now, tanking as well, for some holds once in a blue moon. Not worth it imo.

Last edited by sgtstarfall; 04-24-2013 at 10:58 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,432
# 5
04-24-2013, 10:25 PM
Didn't Aux to Batteries used to share cooldown with EPTA? I think it did. Could be mistaken.

As for this possible rumor, I hope not. My D'kora has never been effective than it has since I switched to that build.

Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 6
04-24-2013, 10:49 PM
I think the "nerf" is that Tholian T4 powers give you bonuses from aux power. It' like extra tac console,maybe two if you have high aux. So A2B user won't benefit from that.

And indeed, original A2B shared cooldown with Emergency powers, because they all were "battery subsystem". But now it does share cooldown with auxiliary powers.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,629
# 7
04-24-2013, 11:02 PM
I use aux to bat and tech doffs... still I have to honestly say there sort of bs.

Tech doffs should probaly give about half what they do if they give anything frankly.

If things like DEM is terrible because it has a overly long cool down for the only so so dmg it provides... perhaps its time to give it a 15s up time and 45s cool down or some such similer thing... of course then you have to remove or nerf the also broken francis doff.

In any event... it does really suck imo that Cryptics balance for cruisers involves doffs.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 204
# 8
04-24-2013, 11:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
I think the "nerf" is that Tholian T4 powers give you bonuses from aux power. It' like extra tac console,maybe two if you have high aux. So A2B user won't benefit from that.

And indeed, original A2B shared cooldown with Emergency powers, because they all were "battery subsystem". But now it does share cooldown with auxiliary powers.
It really depends on how they implement the T4 powers. If it takes an instance of the Aux power levels and uses that for the duration of the skill, then A2B users would have no problem bumping up their Aux powers for that moment to utilize that power and then drain it all down when it's done. (Hazard emitters are a good example of this)

If they're powers that persistently check back at the Aux power rating to reflect benefits, then A2B users will have trouble utilizing the benefits (TSS is a good example of this).


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
I use aux to bat and tech doffs... still I have to honestly say there sort of bs.

Tech doffs should probaly give about half what they do if they give anything frankly.

If things like DEM is terrible because it has a overly long cool down for the only so so dmg it provides... perhaps its time to give it a 15s up time and 45s cool down or some such similer thing... of course then you have to remove or nerf the also broken francis doff.

In any event... it does really suck imo that Cryptics balance for cruisers involves doffs.
Well, I can't say my build isn't exactly...broken or anything. I mean...every skill I have is as if I have 2 copies of them. I mean like...I have 1 minute CD on RSP...30 second CD on EPtS3...15s on TT. Haz emits every 20s? Maybe I'll throw in a APO every 30 seconds just for kicks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 141
# 9
04-24-2013, 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
As for this possible rumor, I hope not. My D'kora has never been effective than it has since I switched to that build.
Mine has been effective before. To be serious, with aux to bat I feel a bit like cheating (at least in PvE, never tried it in PvP). Its insane what I can do with the D'kora. I even outdamage my beloved Guramba sometimes with spamming that DEM3, cycling EptW, Omega and CRF1. Additional I have a lot more resistance due to being able using RSP and Hazard Emitters more often. Rest of healing comes from the Borg set. I could even tank Donatra until she died before the cloaking buff.

At the moment I see not point in flying escorts as long as I have a D'kora. The damage with the build above is in range of top tier escorts, just the turning is sometimes a problem. But as I heard from tribble, they buff rcs consoles...

Of course D'kora and JHEC are special cruiser, but they are showing how imbalanced cruisers can become with aux to bat.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 10
04-24-2013, 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtstarfall View Post
It really depends on how they implement the T4 powers. If it takes an instance of the Aux power levels and uses that for the duration of the skill, then A2B users would have no problem bumping up their Aux powers for that moment to utilize that power and then drain it all down when it's done. (Hazard emitters are a good example of this)

If they're powers that persistently check back at the Aux power rating to reflect benefits, then A2B users will have trouble utilizing the benefits (TSS is a good example of this).
The current version just gives you stat bonus scaled for you aux power. It's passive bonus to weapon training / energy weapon training/ projectile training. So obviously a ship that sits on 5-10 aux whole time won't get much out of it.
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