Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 277
# 41
04-25-2013, 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daan2006 View Post
I don't like it number 3 more so I am fleet master and if you don't like my rule your welcome to leave

and again with kick system trolls ppl trolls
You may have founded your fleet but other peoples contributions 'made' it.

If your worried 70% of your members want you gone... then its clear there is a good reason for it.

The point of this 'rule' would be to stop rogue fleet masters deciding to pretend their accounts have been hacked and stealing all the fleets resources after a certain ammount of time.

There needs to be a shift from 'my fleet' to 'our' fleet, and whether or not you founded it, if 70% want you gone, you should be gone.

Last edited by equinox976; 04-25-2013 at 01:04 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,833
# 42
04-25-2013, 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by equinox976 View Post
You may have founded your fleet but other peoples contributions 'made' it.

If your worried 70% of your members want you gone... then its clear there is a good reason for it.

The point of this 'rule' would be to stop rogue fleet masters deciding to pretend their accounts have been hacked and stealing all the fleets resources after a certain ammount of time.

There needs to be a shift from 'my fleet' to 'our' fleet, and whether or not you founded it or not of 70% want you gone, you should be gone.
and look here if I get wind of something like this being put on trib I will kick all but who I think I may trust sorry guild/fleet are only a democracy if said leader wants it that way and im the praetor and I don't want my fleet to be a democracy my fleet only a democracy up till its something I don't like

ive never played a mmos that don't work they same way as sto

and trust me I would not be the only one to do so
Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.

Last edited by daan2006; 04-25-2013 at 09:23 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 277
# 43
04-25-2013, 09:28 AM
Then likely your kind of fleet will die and go away and people will flock the those that offer democracy and accountability.

Like I said if your afraid of 70% of your fleet then something is seriously wrong to begin with.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,833
# 44
04-25-2013, 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by equinox976 View Post
Then likely your kind of fleet will die and go away and people will flock the those that offer democracy and accountability.

Like I said if your afraid of 70% of your fleet then something is seriously wrong to begin with.
you do not take this in to account this is a free mmos I can make 50 account if I wanted ppl do forget the trolls but seeing this fleet system is the same as most mmos it not going to change to suit your whims

and my fleet doing good for a small fleet I don't need 400+ ppl

and also don't forget there may be ppl who talk nicely to you be friendly with you but could be hateing your rule the hole time
Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.

Last edited by daan2006; 04-25-2013 at 10:59 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 277
# 45
04-25-2013, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daan2006 View Post
you do not take this in to account this is a free mmos I can make 50 account if I wanted ppl do forget the trolls but seeing this fleet system is the same as most mmos it not going to change to suit your whims
A good point and something to keep in mind if/when a fleet protection system is implemented. Perhaps limit voting rights based on time played, ect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daan2006 View Post
and my fleet doing good for a small fleet I don't need 400+ ppl
My suggestion that this 'system' only kicks in when a fleet reaches a certain size, for small fleets I agree it would be an unwelcome and cumbersome system, however once you start talking 200, 300, 400, and all those people have contributed to the creation and maintenance of the fleet it is not only only unfair to allow a single person to hold absolute control, it is also tempting fate.

What I am suggesting is a similar system we have for launching nuclear weapons (an extreme example I know!) in that it does not allow drastic sweeping changes without accountability and fail safes in place, surely this is a good thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daan2006 View Post
and also don't forget there may be ppl who talk nicely to you be friendly with you but could be hateing your rule the hole time
Well that's true for anything in life, but it shouldn't stop us from safeguarding the work of hundreds of people.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 350
# 46
04-26-2013, 06:10 AM
I dont understand why nobody has not suggested the leave only Option.

Make it so a fleet leader can not get demoted or kicked.

A fleet leader must leave of his own free will, via the leave button.

This easy change would prevent a hostile take over.

The fleet I'm in has 500 active members and only one Fleet Leader.

We did this to protect our fleet and efforts from such problems.

Also the fleet leader turned off kicks for everyone but himself, bank change permission, and fleet rename.

Any fleet that thinks it needs more than one leader is mistaken.

Any fleet that forms up under a leader who is not active everyday is mistaken.

Our fleet leader says his role is to keep the fleet safe and our rank 6 officers job is to run the fleet.

This is just to much drama, I just can't not believe people are crying for I want more than one Fleet Leader.

Really I mean really, the safe guards are already in place, it just sounds like people want more.

This entire junk about votes is wrong it will open the door for a entire fleet to getting stolen.

Say your a fleet leader you spent 100s of dollars on Dilithium on your SB ,you recruit 1 new guy.

He chats nice and befriends you, then gets 10 of his other friends to join the your little fleet.

They vote you out and you lost your fleet, then they sell it to the highest bidder then move to the next fleet.

Note:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::

Cryptic already has a solution to protect a fleet it's called when you make a fleet the founder is the only fleet leader..

The founder is the only one with rights to promote people and setup permissions either good or bad.

What your asking for is Cryptic to setup a system to protect your fleet from bad fleet leader decisions.

Next you will ask the government to post guards in front of your house to protect it.

So when you leave home with the doors unlocked and wide open thieves don't walk off with your stuff.

Last edited by blakes7tvseries; 04-26-2013 at 06:20 AM.
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,962
# 47
04-26-2013, 12:26 PM
Fleets are a group activity. I get that few people solo a fleet holding and that everyone who contributes has invested in those facilities. I even respect fleets that want to operate as a democracy.

But democracies have checks and balances. Neither the President nor the majority are able to do whatever they please.

STO doesn't have any mechanism whereby those checks and balances can be quantified as a game mechanic.

There is such a thing as the tyranny of the majority and it can be just as destructive as the jerk who tries to own everything and everyone in the fleet. In some cases, the Commander in Chief model is simply better, depending on who the CiC is.

I try very hard to be the very model of a benevolent dictatorial, despite my limitations which are simply quite lamentable.

I want our fleet to be successful, and I want to do what's best for the members of the fleet that I lead.

At the same time, I have a vision for our fleet. There are principles that I expect our fleet to live up to. If there ever came a time when the majority conflicted with that vision, I would have two choices... leave or command. Some people would probably say that I should be the one to leave. Well... maybe. I have my own investment in the fleet too.

Fortunately for me, I don't think I'd ever be put in that position. But I can see a case for the "My Way" highway.

I think that Cryptic will eventually try to put in some of the checks and balances that would make things more fair for everybody, and I'm okay with that in theory. Depends on what they cook up.
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Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 426
# 48
04-27-2013, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
STO doesn't have any mechanism whereby those checks and balances can be quantified as a game mechanic.
This may be getting way too technical for this discussion, but I was just reading a paper called Do Robots Dream of Electric Laws (PDF link to paper) which talks about the computability of law- in essence, the attempt to reduce the law to some kind of computer-implementable system.

And, well, the long and short of it is that it isn't really possible, even for trivial laws. Even the attempt to reduce speeding offenses to something a computer could effectively implement is incredibly difficult.

I'm not sure it's simply the fact that STO doesn't have any mechanism; it may simply be that such a mechanism is not practical, period.

To which I would suggest that we are putting the cart before the horse. The question is not necessarily what mechanisms Cryptic could implement to 'protect' fleets, but what, exactly, Cryptic wants fleets to be. You can't answer the former until you answer the latter.
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