Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,694
# 21
04-27-2013, 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascaladar View Post
That just shows what is really wrong with the PvP in STO, it favors alpha strike more then anything else, especially that they can be triggered at once is what is causing problems.
Its a problem inherent to the way buffs work in the Cryptic engine I think. Champions Online, back when PvP still happened and before they put the game on life support had the same problem. The alphas were insane but if a target managed to survive the best alha builds had nothing for a follow up strike. Back then in CO we were pretty sure it had something to do with the way buffs were coded that prevented anything like reasonable soft caps and/or that the system just couldn't handle partial CC effects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
....you are a bad starship captain and you should feel bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
However, I think with regard to the Romulan Republic player characters/npcs, it all comes down to a finite point:

These are not the Romulans from the shows.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 144
# 22
04-27-2013, 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascaladar View Post
That just shows what is really wrong with the PvP in STO, it favors alpha strike more then anything else, especially that they can be triggered at once is what is causing problems.

Again STO has no such mechanic, BoP can simply cloak again and dissappear waiting for their next Alpha to become available. Most other escorts have at least the option to use evasive maneuver to easily outrun any slower ship.
There are drawbacks. Performing a successfull alpha strikes in a BoP is far more difficult thensimply activate damage buffs + CRF as in an escort.

In addition, after an alpha strike of an BoP - successfull or not - the pilot need to wait min. 1 min to be ready again.

Further, most alpha strike build arevery restrictive to PvP and quite sub optimal for PvE which demands ship or at least Boff layout switching.

Quote:
So in essence, without some major rebalancing that does not only involve the BoPs (they are a symptom, not the cause) the PvP content in this game can be described as dead.
Take in mind that all BoPs are only shining in alpha striking. They have lower hull, lower shield, less tac console, less weapon slots and less bridge officer then an escort.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 625
# 23
04-27-2013, 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascaladar View Post
The term alpha strike comes from tabletop Battletech...
Point of interest: the term "Alpha Strike" actually comes from Vietnam era carrier tactics. An Alpha Strike was a single strike mission by all the aircraft that could be carried on the flight deck as to be launched as rapidly as possable. The strike would comprise about 30 or so planes; roughly half the air wing.
My Romulan Liberated Borg character made it to Level 30 and beat the (old) Defense of New Romulus with the skill point bug.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,387
# 24
04-27-2013, 09:07 PM
[quote=burstorion;9498241]How does that bop do that?

With style while flying through your exploding hull usually /QUOTE]

This had me laughing so hard.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,278
# 25
04-27-2013, 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xiphenon View Post
There are drawbacks. Performing a successfull alpha strikes in a BoP is far more difficult thensimply activate damage buffs + CRF as in an escort.

In addition, after an alpha strike of an BoP - successfull or not - the pilot need to wait min. 1 min to be ready again.

Further, most alpha strike build arevery restrictive to PvP and quite sub optimal for PvE which demands ship or at least Boff layout switching.



Take in mind that all BoPs are only shining in alpha striking. They have lower hull, lower shield, less tac console, less weapon slots and less bridge officer then an escort.
Indeed. The basic stats of the Bird of Prey prevent it from staying in a fight. It's very maneuverable and offers build flexibility, but the shield mods are the lowest in the game, and the hull is the lowest out of all ship types outside of shuttles.

Common mistakes by new BOP users is that they try to use it as an Escort, which it simply is not meant to do. For the KDF, the Raptors and Nausicaan Destroyers are much more sturdier for that role and can hang in the middle of a constant fight, putting out damage as fast as you can hit SPACE. But a BOP is all about the surprise attacks. Lingering in a fight uncloaked is dangerous if other opposition is there.

Also, another great way to help yourself out against these decloaking strikes?

Never travel alone. The lone ship is by far the juiciest target that a BOP captain can wish for. With a friend nearby, they can do things to support you from going over the edge and blowing up, or do things to turn the tables on the BOP.

Stay on the alert, and listen for that tell tale decloaking sound.

And for goodness' sake, do NOT put your ship at a standstill!
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 655
# 26
04-28-2013, 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
Why am I not surprised. None of the klingon players here have mentioned carrying a Lt. Science Bridge officer with charged particle burst I. Sure you lose Transfer Shield Strength II, but with CPB you can knock a bird of prey out of cloak before they are ready to attack. There is something very satisfying about knocking a bird of prey out of cloak during their prep phase.



Aye, I run a fleet patrol escort like a bird of prey (High Yield III/Beam Overload III with High Yield I/Overload II) and I rarely see anyone else doing the same. It's probably due to the difficulty in dropping torps though an enemy shield when it's not a surprise attack. However it does make an effective anti bird of prey measure after you've hit them with charged particle burst.
..You expect bop pilots to tell you how to kill us? Really? :p

Thats what the sto wiki is for..its a treasure trove of (mostly) correct and up to date information that any player can use (provided they can read/use a translation program)

CPBs a nice choice though...the aoe is quite useful (and annoying for a bop pilot) and requires some intresting bop design choices to counteract and no doubt come rommie season, I'll be launching CPBs around as well...unless I get a better, non console idea...
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,745
# 27
04-28-2013, 07:19 PM
Know your weaknesses, which means find out what makes your ship very vulnerable and compensate. This is pretty easy, first thing first, you are vulnerable to subnucleanic beam (everyone pretty much is). Second, you make a very tempting target during the time interval between the cool down of your tanking abilities, which is a 5 to 10sec window depending on the build. BoPs generally need 2sec to take someone out. There are ways to close those gaps.

You can also hear the bop decloaking and if they're nearby, you can hear them buffing up, and that's your signal to activate emergency power to shields and tactical team.

One last piece of advice, never ever stop/park your starship during a space fight, whatever it takes.
Reality is WAR
KHG Klingon Honor Guard

Last edited by deokkent; 04-28-2013 at 07:23 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 28
04-28-2013, 07:42 PM
I have been on the receiving end of dozens of alpha strikes, ranging from BoPs to Fleet Defiants. And I won't lie, they hurt. Period. There is no way around this. Your best friend is Monotanium and BFI. Also an itchy TT1 finger is helpful.

However something I have found to be amusingly effective is when you see one do that and you punch the EM3. I have had BoPs try to alpha me, and then I hit EM3 and get behind them. Doesn't work very often, since a skilled BoP pilot will just turn with you or do the same, but when it does work, I get a great laugh.

However as an eng captain, you can also hit MW/RSF. Those will counter the THY by giving you a sliver of shield. And also having an itchy EPtS3 is helpful too. Other than that, just keep an eye out, and keep your ears peeled. De-cloaking has a very distinctive sound. It gives you a split second to live or die.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 834
# 29
04-29-2013, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
Why am I not surprised. None of the klingon players here have mentioned carrying a Lt. Science Bridge officer with charged particle burst I. Sure you lose Transfer Shield Strength II, but with CPB you can knock a bird of prey out of cloak before they are ready to attack. There is something very satisfying about knocking a bird of prey out of cloak during their prep phase.



Aye, I run a fleet patrol escort like a bird of prey (High Yield III/Beam Overload III with High Yield I/Overload II) and I rarely see anyone else doing the same. It's probably due to the difficulty in dropping torps though an enemy shield when it's not a surprise attack. However it does make an effective anti bird of prey measure after you've hit them with charged particle burst.
I usually use a different type of CPB against the BoP... Chunky Peanut Butter in their exhaust pipes!
What's Star Trek Online without Exploration? Star Wars? (War zones and STFs)
Are you sure it isn't time for a "colourful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home'
Star Trek Battles Channel - Play STO more like Star Trek with challenge, teamwork and FUN!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 136
# 30
05-03-2013, 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkfader1988 View Post
These bop players r nothing more then cheats.
sadly I have to agree with mt

Due to the nature of STO's antiquated ancient game engine, it simply cannot respond fast enough in various situations. Such situations can be buff powers on your buff tray not activating upon click or key (you literally have to hit the buff power a couple times before it finally activates). But more than that, the engine cannot respond fast enough for shield distribution (when using TT or RSP) against an bop alpha BO attack which cuts your ship to shreds despite activating Tac team or Reverse Shield Polarity which is supposed to protect you from that kind of spike damage.

Unfortunately, it doesn't because the engine's calculation are subpar of being capable of shield distribution within milleseconds of beam overload strike.

To make matters worse, there are many bop players using and spamming science powers for hold and interupts (disables) thanks to a certain 4 UNIVERSAL STATIONS BOFF ship, tend to spam PSW and TB and perhaps a few 'disable' p2w universal consoles in order to 'interupt' and disable a player for a couple seconds so they cannot activate a buff to save themselves from a alpha Beam overload strike!

As if the games engine forcing players to repeatedly hammer one buff power on the buff tray several times in order to activate wasn't bad enough....but we have bop players disabling the poor buggers entirely!


Photonic shockwave was purely designed to interupt healers (extend shields, tb, etc etc) with the intent to make it easier on your team mates to kill the opposing team without a 'GOD mode healer' keeping them alive all the time. It was never designed nor intended for bop use to 'exploit' (however I adulate players for thinking up this to use on a bop).

To answer the question in this thread, no you cannot really defend against a bop alpha using said tactics above!

Your best bet is to chain tac team > epts > tss > tac team > epts (and if you are engie) > RSF to keep your shield damage resistence high enough that you may survive their initial attack. Use your buffs sparingly and only use around 2 buffs every now and then.
Spec into intertial dampeners (although that won't really help much) and be prepared to use omega and polarize hull.

Keep in mind though, despite these to help your survival, it simply won't be enough due to the nature of this 'exploit' you will essentially still have your systems knocked offline and thanks to the game's engine (which is your downfall). Not even the strongest player in this game can survive because of this

As mt said, these bop players are nothing more than cheats!

Last edited by spacefortress; 05-03-2013 at 03:24 PM.
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