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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 380
# 241
04-24-2013, 03:26 AM
Ok, I thought about how to change Efficent, but the problem is that you would have to change the whole math behind Warpcore-Efficency:

1.) The Bonus-Power you gain from an Efficent Boff/Captain should give you a real boost (10% trait for the Captain-version).

2.) You shouldn't get a penalty from the math for running (almost) balanced powersettings, so the restriction that powerpresets above 75 won't gain a bonus has to be changed, since the maximum preset we can make is 100, we should take this value.

3.) An efficent Captain should give you a bonus-pool of 20 Energy-Points, an efficent Boff at least 5 (this is just an example, I thought a quater of the captain-trait would be a good value to begin with).

How should the new math look like:

Efficent_Bonus_Pool=20*count(efficent_captains)+5* count(efficent_boffs)+modifier*warpcore-efficency-skill

Now we make it a linear function that hits 0 at a presetting of 100 power:
b=Efficent_Bonus_Pool
m=-Efficent_Bonus_Pool/100

y=m*x+b ||in this case: y=system_power_bonus , x=Subsystem_Power_preset & b=Efficent_bonus_pool

system_power_bonus= Efficent_Bonus_Pool-(Efficent_Bonus_Pool/100)*Subsystem_Power_preset

So at a Subsystem_Power_preset of 100, you don't gain any bonuses to that Subsystem, with an efficent Captain you would always gain additional 20 Power across Subsystems that are on powerlevels below 100, but you don't get a penalty, if you run 1 or 2 subsystems on a presetting of 75 or above.

I think this would finally balance the trait (the skill, too) against others, the next step would be to make engine-power, weapon-power, shield-power and auxilary-power similar efficent...
First one half of the so called Community complains: "Give us instant access to all veteran rewards, for going lifetime.", then the other half of the same Community complains: "I've earned 1000 Day membership, I want a special reward.".
Stop complaining, if it is enough for you, you could have the "Captains Table" for the real veterans, I don't want access to another dead social zone...
Rihannsu
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 301
# 242
04-24-2013, 09:58 AM
@Torsten- I dont think Cryptic's calculations are that straight forward. Nonetheless it makes things much easier to figure out balance wise to be sure.

On a side note, I also think a single BO power should equal 100% of the captain's power bonus if all of them had the same power; cumulatively.

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Last edited by aspartan1; 04-24-2013 at 10:02 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,139
# 243
04-27-2013, 06:35 PM
I've asked in a couple of places without getting a direct answer, but perusing this thread - it appears that Romulans can't take Elusive. It never becomes an option. I've asked here and there, even in a Rom50 thread - to see if it ever became an option; but I never got an answer - just others wondering the same thing.

So a couple of things to consider here in regard to this.

1) Elusive gives +10% Bonus Defense.
2) I haven't seen a Warbird that has the Escort's +10% Bonus Defense.

This means that a Romulan in a Warbird will have 20% less Bonus Defense compared to a Fed/KDF Alien (or other species capable of taking Elusive) that is flying an Escort/Raider/Raptor/(ship with the +10% Bonus Defense).

Example:

Romulan, Warbird, >24 Impulse, 9 Maneuvers, Aegis Engine, Aegis 2pc = 70%
Alien, Raider, >24 Impulse, 9 Maneuvers, Elusive, Aegis Engine, Aegis 2pc = 90%

Consider the following as well...

Alien, Cruiser, >24 Impulse, 9 Maneuvers, Elusive, Aegis Engine, Aegis 2pc = 80%

Yes, the Warbirds have a Battle Cloak. So does the Raider.

Yes, the Rom has Subterfuge and Operative. So is that saying they should only fly cloaked vessels, otherwise they'll be at even more of a disadvantage compared to another species flying that non-cloaked ship?
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Posts: 2,085
# 244
04-27-2013, 07:19 PM
Simple fix, change elusive and the accuracy trait to only grant 5%. Yes people will complain. Yes they will get over it.
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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,223
# 245
04-27-2013, 07:23 PM
I do think that will happen eventually.

It's all still a symptom of a larger problem that there aren't enough space traits, or at least not enough that distribute actually interesting numbers.

I am pretty positive about LoR overall, but I still think this was a missed opportunity to re-work space traits in general.
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Posts: 13,139
# 246
04-27-2013, 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Simple fix, change elusive and the accuracy trait to only grant 5%. Yes people will complain. Yes they will get over it.
Given that the traits are supposedly balanced around each other, were you to nerf Accurate/Elusive...you'd have to nerf all the other traits as well. Would people still get over it?
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
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# 247
04-27-2013, 07:26 PM
That's kind of a circular argument since it leads right back to "accurate and elusive are clearly the best traits though". But I am pretty sure you know you're playing Devil's advocate here, so this is probably a captain obvious observation.
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Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
Captain
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Posts: 13,139
# 248
04-27-2013, 07:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsurutafan01 View Post
That's kind of a circular argument since it leads right back to "accurate and elusive are clearly the best traits though". But I am pretty sure you know you're playing Devil's advocate here, so this is probably a captain obvious observation.
Well, have to consider Holo vs. Tribble. On Tribble, an Alien can take 8 space traits and 1 ground trait. It's kind of a different story than on Holo.

Nerfing something, though - would require rebalancing.
Removing on the other hand...
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,223
# 249
04-27-2013, 07:32 PM
Yeah I actually think that in a sense the extra traits all characters will have reduces the issue, because a higher % of characters will end up with said traits.

I still think they should have done something like each character having a racial trait, 3 space traits, and 3 ground traits. Or something like that.

But anyway, what's done is done. These threads have enough speculation about things that aren't happening as is without me piling on even more.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 301
# 250
04-27-2013, 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
[..]
Nerfing something, though - would require rebalancing.
Removing on the other hand...
For what it is worth, I would like to see the system converted into a "vice and virtue". Each trait would have an inherent "vice" or demerit value associated with it. I figure most players would be against such a thing but I think it would add an interesting dimension to the game.

On a related note, I would like to see some traits that deal with BOff and DOff as well.

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