Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,795
# 11
04-29-2013, 03:44 PM
You do the best guides Mimey.

Question: where do you get the unbound DOFF pack. I've looked on my fleet's starbase and the only ones I see are bind on pickup. Could it be an unlock we don't have yet?
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"I would rather take a chance on getting a change made to the game through positive engagement than know for sure that I got a change made by complaining" -drogyn1701, May 14, 2014.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 425
# 12
04-29-2013, 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainmikec View Post
this is excellent, the part about provisioning was enlightening
ill pass this on to the other officers in my fleet for them to read!!

now can someone please direct me to a place where i can see the stats/price for the fleet space/ground items so i can compare them with the normal Mk XII items?
I have checked a few times in the wiki and in general internet searches and cant find info on their stats or their cost.
So its hard to decide if they are worth waiting for and investing in, or just skipping for normal gear .... especially since we started a provisioning task for fleet ground items now
are they worth that 200k DL task?

Hi captainmikec,

You may want to note there are two kinds of provisioning missions available, one requires 200k Dil and the other commodities, doffs etc and takes longer to finish (but i think its alot cheaper)
"If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,336
# 13
04-29-2013, 06:19 PM
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 332
# 14
04-30-2013, 10:09 AM
I put together a spreadsheet that can help determine how much a fleet has spent, and can expect to spend: http://bit.ly/STOFleetValue
Lieutenant
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 63
# 15
04-30-2013, 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirisee View Post
Hi captainmikec,

You may want to note there are two kinds of provisioning missions available, one requires 200k Dil and the other commodities, doffs etc and takes longer to finish (but i think its alot cheaper)
yea i noticed that, unfortunatly the person that actually started that provision mission wasnt paying attention to which they selected....... so now we are stuck with it

i just hope the items for the science provisions like shields are worth it....?
is there anywhere that has a list or pics of them?
it kinda stinks working toward items and being blind as to how useful they are
"Tickle us, do we not laugh? Prick us, do we not bleed? Wrong us, shall we not revenge?"
-General Chang

Last edited by captainmikec; 04-30-2013 at 11:32 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,430
# 16
04-30-2013, 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phyrexianhero View Post
Excellent work. I'd suggest including a link to the fleet holding costs, list of starbase projects, and list of embassy projects as a tool for people to decide if the cost is worth it, and prepare for upcoming projects.
And an excellent suggestion at that. I'll be adding that to the third post, as an 'Extra Useful Info' section.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naevius View Post
Also, you might mention that the Fleet system is designed around 25-person fleets, according to Cryptic. Smaller fleets will have a tougher slog.
Also good. I'll be adding that to the first post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post
You do the best guides Mimey.

Question: where do you get the unbound DOFF pack. I've looked on my fleet's starbase and the only ones I see are bind on pickup. Could it be an unlock we don't have yet?
Thanks. But unbound DOFF pack? Oh, you mean the single DOFFs you can buy from the DOFF guy, right? Those used to be unbound awhile back, but at some point they changed it to be bound to character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabelgrave View Post
I put together a spreadsheet that can help determine how much a fleet has spent, and can expect to spend: http://bit.ly/STOFleetValue
Thanks for that as well. I'll also add that to the useful info section.

Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,795
# 17
05-01-2013, 06:26 AM
So the ones on the exchange are old versions?
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
"I would rather take a chance on getting a change made to the game through positive engagement than know for sure that I got a change made by complaining" -drogyn1701, May 14, 2014.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,517
# 18
05-01-2013, 08:22 AM
A suggested addendum to tips 4 and 5: Dilithium can sometimes be your friend. Or at least, the lesser of two evils when compared to duty officers. Consider tier 4, wich you'll be grinding through longer than the entire first three tiers:

1000 xp projects require 90 doffs each of two departments. This is 5.6 xp/doff, and suffers from department imbalance - 90 science doffs are easy since it's a large department with many specializations, but 90 medical doffs are difficult, it's a small department with only a few options.

500 XP projects have Eng and Sci options with no doff inputs. All three departments have options that take 25 doffs from either department, eliminating imbalance and giving 20 xp/doff. Military has an option that takes 55 from any non-civilian department (cheap abundant science doffs can do the bulk of the work) and gives 9.1 xp/doff. Have to be careful, however, since operational asset projects give 500 xp and take 100 doffs each from two departments, making them 2.5 xp/doff.

The trade off is that you're taking 50-80k dilithium instead.

It comes down to the fleet's situation. The four main shortages fleets run into are dilithium, doffs, fleet credits, and provisions.

Dilithium shortages call for dilithium-free 1000 xp projects
Doff shortages call for doff-light 500 xp projects
FC shortages call for special projects and/or cost-inefficient 500 xp projects
Provisioning shortages obviously call for 500 xp provisioning projects, or the quick 0 XP dilithium-to-provision projects.

It takes some experimentation, but a little bit of planned economy communism goes a long way with a starbase.

In my experience, larger fleets have their biggest problems with FC shortages - same inputs divided among more people. They can go either way on the doff vs. dilithium thing - it's often easier to wrangle a few hundred dilithium here or there than it is to get people to sacrifice enough flesh to sate your ravenous blood god, but if your fleet has a lot of recent VAs their personal dilithium use will be high and there's not much to spare for the fleet. If your fleet has a lot of well established characters, though, their last real project may be the very slow process of building up an ideal crew and their dilithium is expendable while doffs are hoarded.


Very small fleets, due to refining and recruitment limits, often have a shortage of both dilithium and doffs. However, they are also likely to have an abundance of fleet credits with fewer members sharing the same costs. Excess fleet credits can easily be turned into doffs, which helps ease the doff shortage, but is very inefficient, particularly with science projects where you can generate hundreds of extra science doffs to get those 90 medical ones.

Last edited by hevach; 05-01-2013 at 08:40 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,430
# 19
05-01-2013, 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hevach View Post
A suggested addendum to tips 4 and 5: Dilithium can sometimes be your friend. Or at least, the lesser of two evils when compared to duty officers. Consider tier 4, wich you'll be grinding through longer than the entire first three tiers:

1000 xp projects require 90 doffs each of two departments. This is 5.6 xp/doff, and suffers from department imbalance - 90 science doffs are easy since it's a large department with many specializations, but 90 medical doffs are difficult, it's a small department with only a few options.

500 XP projects have Eng and Sci options with no doff inputs. All three departments have options that take 25 doffs from either department, eliminating imbalance and giving 20 xp/doff. Military has an option that takes 55 from any non-civilian department (cheap abundant science doffs can do the bulk of the work) and gives 9.1 xp/doff. Have to be careful, however, since operational asset projects give 500 xp and take 100 doffs each from two departments, making them 2.5 xp/doff.

The trade off is that you're taking 50-80k dilithium instead.

It comes down to the fleet's situation. The four main shortages fleets run into are dilithium, doffs, fleet credits, and provisions.

Dilithium shortages call for dilithium-free 1000 xp projects
Doff shortages call for doff-light 500 xp projects
FC shortages call for special projects and/or cost-inefficient 500 xp projects
Provisioning shortages obviously call for 500 xp provisioning projects, or the quick 0 XP dilithium-to-provision projects.

It takes some experimentation, but a little bit of planned economy communism goes a long way with a starbase.

In my experience, larger fleets have their biggest problems with FC shortages - same inputs divided among more people. They can go either way on the doff vs. dilithium thing - it's often easier to wrangle a few hundred dilithium here or there than it is to get people to sacrifice enough flesh to sate your ravenous blood god, but if your fleet has a lot of recent VAs their personal dilithium use will be high and there's not much to spare for the fleet. If your fleet has a lot of well established characters, though, their last real project may be the very slow process of building up an ideal crew and their dilithium is expendable while doffs are hoarded.


Very small fleets, due to refining and recruitment limits, often have a shortage of both dilithium and doffs. However, they are also likely to have an abundance of fleet credits with fewer members sharing the same costs. Excess fleet credits can easily be turned into doffs, which helps ease the doff shortage, but is very inefficient, particularly with science projects where you can generate hundreds of extra science doffs to get those 90 medical ones.
To start, there is one bit of good news regarding this DOFF inbalance. The other day, Borticus mentioned they may change it so that all missions that need DOFFs, require a mixture of whatever area they normally need. Like an 1k xp mission would need a mixture of 180 Tac/Security DOFFs, instead of the 90/90 split it has now. So hope and pray that they do it, because it'll make life a lot less painful.

I admit, that much of what you brought up, I did consider a lot. I probably spent a week thinking about that alone, asking people what they thought, etc. In the end though I went with what I went with, because of this: "ECs and FCs can always be gotten in any amount, dilithium is always limited without exchanging Zen for it."

I felt that while you are indeed right, sometimes dil can be the better choice, there's just TOO many things it can potentially go to for people. Even if a person was totally selfless about donating their dil, the moment they wanted any piece of fleet gear, or something outta rep, or anything else, suddenly they are going to have to slow down their dil donations considerably. Yes there can be others, but if they also want to buy things, it can suddenly change a lot in regards to the Starbase getting dilithium.

Something I did mention though is that a fleet should slot only what they can handle. If they can easily fill 1, maybe 2 dilithium-requiring projects without too much trouble, then they totally should. But if that's an issue, it's better in the longer run to have a DOFf-heavy mission, because you can always have easy access to DOFFs by buying them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post
So the ones on the exchange are old versions?
Yes, that is correct. Still gives all the same DOFFs though.

Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,032
# 20
05-01-2013, 05:38 PM
Additional tips for economizing:

Since each tier is more expensive (in terms of resources/XP) than the one before, there are a couple of things that can be done to get the most bang for the buck.

1) Just before getting to the next tier, queue up the maximum number of projects (that would be 2x 1000 XP and 4x 500 XP). If you do this when you're 500 XP from the next tier, that'll be 2500 XP that you're getting for the previous tier's costs. It's a pretty decent boost at the lower levels.

2) The same holds true for fleet provisions. Provisions will never be cheaper than they are at Tier 1 (well, except for Personal Requisitions which are clearly bugged.) This would argue that, as much as possible, you should prioritize provisions early on.

3) There are projects that you must do to advance (Shipyard, Fabricator, Comm Array), and then there are projects that can be done any time after attaining the prereqs (Starbase, various vendor/officers, etc...) Since the costs for these projects are fixed, it benefits you to put those off as long as you can stand to.

For example - the Upgrade Starbase I project can be done as soon as you get 1 of the categories to tier 1, and it grants 1500 XP in each category. If you do it right away, you get the benefit of 1500 XP at tier 1 prices and 3000 XP at tier 0 prices. On the other hand, if you waited until everything was at tier 4, you'd get the effect of 4500 XP at tier 4 prices. (Just looking at Dil. costs for the 1000 XP projects, that's a benefit of 57k Dil vs 324k Dil.)
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