Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 111
05-03-2013, 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by varrvarr View Post
Fine then make him BO, but don't make him take up a BO slot. He's forced on me, great, but don't make him take up BO space. I mean I have no desire for this guy even in my crew on my Reman ship, let alone for him as my first office, if I can relegate him to only story content I'll never play LoR and I can bet I'm not alone.
Then don't play a Romulan. If a single BOFF is causing you this much pissyness, there's really nothing more to say on the subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by varrvarr View Post
In SWTOR, game mechanics meant you were better off having certain companions with you if you weren't in full party, I may have hated Gusso, but my soloing or duoing went much better with in in place. It was also what drove me and my guild away from the game. Once the Dev's story was told I had not desire to keep playing, I didn't have my own story to adventure through or even my own crew to feel attachment to. In STO I do. I have my all Klingon crew, my all Vulcan ship, my All Andorians (Thank you Devs for finally giving my a proper ship to man). I'm not going to change the way I play STO now because they threw in some story.
Incorrect. Running with a healer companion didn't make you better off, it just shifted time away from downtime into fighting. You don't need to heal as much, but you take longer to kill.

The only time a healer is a bonus is if you're running as a tank, and then solely because you don't have to cheese your way through Heroic 2+ and 4 missions to get them done solo. TOR's open world difficulty is not very high.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 37
# 112
05-03-2013, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
Then don't play a Romulan. If a single BOFF is causing you this much pissyness, there's really nothing more to say on the subject.



Incorrect. Running with a healer companion didn't make you better off, it just shifted time away from downtime into fighting. You don't need to heal as much, but you take longer to kill.

The only time a healer is a bonus is if you're running as a tank, and then solely because you don't have to cheese your way through Heroic 2+ and 4 missions to get them done solo. TOR's open world difficulty is not very high.
So you're saying I should stop spending money on STO? Come one let's be reasonable here. I've show no problem with having a BO that is required for story purposes. What I've suggested is it can be done without making that BO feel like a forced part of my crew.

As for your comments about SWTOR, I don't really care any more I stopped playing the game once I ran through all of the stories and haven't been back since, but I'm glad avoided the point. Mechanics made some companions better for gameplay purposes than others, and because the companions mechanics were pre-decided and forced on me I was left with playing with the characters I liked or playing with characters that were more synergistic to my build. STO has never been this way, STO has mostly been a cake and eat it too kind of game and it should continue that way.

I keep coming back to STO because I'm invested in my entire crews not just my single characters. I keep making new characters (and buying new slots) not because we have new careers or skills (which we really haven't for a long time), but because I can do new things with an entire ship full of characters I create and customize.
- Formerly Varrangian
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 113
05-03-2013, 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by varrvarr View Post
So you're saying I should stop spending money on STO? Come one let's be reasonable here. I've show no problem with having a BO that is required for story purposes. What I've suggested is it can be done without making that BO feel like a forced part of my crew.
Don't put words in my mouth. All I've said is that if you cannot handle a character driven story, then don't participate in the part of STO that is a character driven story.

Secondly, kindly explain how you intend to create a scenario where someone is an integral member of your crew, yet isn't actually an integral member of your crew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by varrvarr View Post
As for your comments about SWTOR, I don't really care any more I stopped playing the game once I ran through all of the stories and haven't been back since, but I'm glad avoided the point. Mechanics made some companions better for gameplay purposes than others, and because the companions mechanics were pre-decided and forced on me I was left with playing with the characters I liked or playing with characters that were more synergistic to my build. STO has never been this way, STO has mostly been a cake and eat it too kind of game and it should continue that way.
Every TOR companion had it's niche. That means for certain setups one companion or another may be a better fit to a given player's playstyle. No companion was useless, nor was any companion mandatory.

Secondly, we're right back to "if you can't handle character driven stories, don't play a game focused on character driven stories". I honestly do not understand how you would think BioWare of all developers would create eight different plots based around an unending stream of faceless nobodies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by varrvarr View Post
I keep coming back to STO because I'm invested in my entire crews not just my single characters. I keep making new characters (and buying new slots) not because we have new careers or skills (which we really haven't for a long time), but because I can do new things with an entire ship full of characters I create and customize.

Nothing in LoR is stopping you from continuing to do that as a Fed or KDF character.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 37
# 114
05-03-2013, 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
Don't put words in my mouth. All I've said is that if you cannot handle a character driven story, then don't participate in the part of STO that is a character driven story.

Secondly, kindly explain how you intend to create a scenario where someone is an integral member of your crew, yet isn't actually an integral member of your crew.
He can be an integral part of the story without having to be an integral part of my crew. It's called imagination. I had to do it in SWTOR, alot, since so many of my supposed "choices" really were not choices and had little ramification for the next series of plot advancements.

I've used a lot of imagination in playing STO, I like it. I prefer it to being on rails.


Quote:
Every TOR companion had it's niche. That means for certain setups one companion or another may be a better fit to a given player's playstyle. No companion was useless, nor was any companion mandatory.

Secondly, we're right back to "if you can't handle character driven stories, don't play a game focused on character driven stories". I honestly do not understand how you would think BioWare of all developers would create eight different plots based around an unending stream of faceless nobodies.
But my character was a faceless nobody in SWTOR. The only reason to force anything about how the character looked in SWTOR was for the romantic interest stories and even then that's debateable. My species choice meant nothing in the end, expect maybe for a few references here and there in the Sith Inquisitor story. My sex choice only prohibited who I could "woo" and even then that was an arbitrary choice to keep homosexuality off the table.

Few of the companion stories required a specific species and even those that did had no reason to prevent you from having unlimited control over how that companion looked.


Quote:
Nothing in LoR is stopping you from continuing to do that as a Fed or KDF character.
But it keeps me from playing the Romulan content how I want. I'm fine with story, but don't tell me this guys place in my crew, there is no need to write a story like that for a game like STO. It wasn't even very effective for a game like SWTOR which for all it's good points was a tremendous failure.
- Formerly Varrangian
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 115
05-03-2013, 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by varrvarr View Post
He can be an integral part of the story without having to be an integral part of my crew. It's called imagination. I had to do it in SWTOR, alot, since so many of my supposed "choices" really were not choices and had little ramification for the next series of plot advancements.

I've used a lot of imagination in playing STO, I like it. I prefer it to being on rails.
For the third time: if you cannot deal with a character driven story, do not play a character driven story and then whine how you didn't like a character driven story. I really don't see why this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by varrvarr View Post
But my character was a faceless nobody in SWTOR. The only reason to force anything about how the character looked in SWTOR was for the romantic interest stories and even then that's debateable. My species choice meant nothing in the end, expect maybe for a few references here and there in the Sith Inquisitor story. My sex choice only prohibited who I could "woo" and even then that was an arbitrary choice to keep homosexuality off the table.

Few of the companion stories required a specific species and even those that did had no reason to prevent you from having unlimited control over how that companion looked.
Every character class in TOR played a defined role in the galaxy's narrative. Each companion played a defined role within each class-specific narrative (and sometimes in a different classes narrative too). That's as far from a faceless nobody with no story framework as you can get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by varrvarr View Post
But it keeps me from playing the Romulan content how I want. I'm fine with story, but don't tell me this guys place in my crew
You've just contradicted your own assertion. Either you're fine with Cryptic telling you a story, in which case you can dislike the Tovan character but accept the fact that he's a part of the story and therefore a part of your starting crew, or you're only fine with story on your specific terms doing what you want it to do. It doesn't go both ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by varrvarr View Post
It wasn't even very effective for a game like SWTOR which for all it's good points was a tremendous failure.
Considering TOR in a year and a half has put out more additional content (both fluff and concrete) than STO has ever had, and continues to retain a playerbase significantly greater than STOs, calling TOR a failure is extremely misguided.

But that's entirely irrelevant to your inability to deal with stories that don't do exactly what you want them to.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 37
# 116
05-03-2013, 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
For the third time: if you cannot deal with a character driven story, do not play a character driven story and then whine how you didn't like a character driven story. I really don't see why this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp.
We'll just deal with this since you clearly want this to be about TOR and for the last few comments I think you should go play it, sounds like the game you want STO to be, which is not what others want STO to be.

PWE/Cryptic wants to shut up and take my money, so they want to give me an incentive to play their story driven content and spend money on it. There is no reason they can't use the cake and eat it too approach. Make this character a throw away BO for those who will just use him to play through the story. That's doesn't hurt anyone who wants to fall in love with him and hug him and call him George (well actually they can't call him that I guess if he can't be customized).

The reality is you're being short sighted. They have every incentive to not make this a "forced" situation like SWTOR companions and no reason to not provide that option to people. The game is already established as about freedom to play with the "look" I want from the ship I fly to the crew that flies it, why change that when they can accomplish the same thing without forcing the issue?
- Formerly Varrangian
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 29
# 117
05-03-2013, 12:26 PM
Legacy of Romulus, What A joke. Lousy Voice acting. On the planet the one at the farm sounds like a Ferengi. Also , Why even attempt to put in a story so we are stuck with that BO. This is why STO is hard up for cash is the bad content they keep releasing. And as for the Person above me on this page, I don't see where you get off tell people if they don't like it do not play a romulan. This is not SWTOR, so quit bringing it up. If you like that style game, go back to it.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 118
05-03-2013, 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by varrvarr View Post
We'll just deal with this since you clearly want this to be about TOR and for the last few comments I think you should go play it, sounds like the game you want STO to be, which is not what others want STO to be.
I wasn't the one to bring up TOR, nor am I the one who continues to bring it up as an example of "what you shouldn't do" because of the way it approaches its story. If you don't want to talk about TOR, don't bloody well talk about TOR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by varrvarr View Post
PWE/Cryptic wants to shut up and take my money, so they want to give me an incentive to play their story driven content and spend money on it. There is no reason they can't use the cake and eat it too approach. Make this character a throw away BO for those who will just use him to play through the story. That's doesn't hurt anyone who wants to fall in love with him and hug him and call him George (well actually they can't call him that I guess if he can't be customized).

And now that we're finally back to the technical issue at hand, it still hasn't changed. The way the Tovan character appears in the storyline (as both a BOFF and an NPC) necessitates that he keep a static appearance. If and when the game can technically handle making on the fly NPC changes based on BOFF modification, that'll change.


Quote:
Originally Posted by varrvarr View Post
The reality is you're being short sighted. They have every incentive to not make this a "forced" situation like SWTOR companions and no reason to not provide that option to people. The game is already established as about freedom to play with the "look" I want from the ship I fly to the crew that flies it, why change that when they can accomplish the same thing without forcing the issue?
You're the one demanding that an entire faction be rewritten and redesigned because you can't accept a character driven story...and I'm the one being short sighted?

Nothing is preventing you from running through (or even completely ignoring) the stock Cryptic plotline and roleplaying as whatever you damn well want your Romulan character to be. Except of course your unwillingness to accept that Cryptic made a creative decision to actually put some life into their plot for a change.


Quote:
Originally Posted by suntaru View Post
And as for the Person above me on this page, I don't see where you get off tell people if they don't like it do not play a romulan. This is not SWTOR, so quit bringing it up. If you like that style game, go back to it.
You need to actually read what has been written. If you know you're going to dislike a character driven story, you don't walk headfirst into a character driven story, then complain that you hated it. Instead, partake of the content setups that actually appeal to you.

It's completely analagous to someone who dislikes PvP going into a PvP scenario, and then complaining that PvP happened.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 37
# 119
05-03-2013, 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
And now that we're finally back to the technical issue at hand, it still hasn't changed. The way the Tovan character appears in the storyline (as both a BOFF and an NPC) necessitates that he keep a static appearance. If and when the game can technically handle making on the fly NPC changes based on BOFF modification, that'll change.
And this is where you're not listening to me. Once you said he can't be customized I understood your reasons and said fine, but don't make him my first officer. You can't tell me they couldn't write a story where they didn't force a first office upon you. My understanding is that his uniform can't even be customized, you're telling me the immersion would be broken if I see him in the uniform I picked for him and then see him in a mission in the "default" outfit? Come on that's just lame.

I understand he needs to be there, I understand he can't change his species or his hair, face eyes, but certainly he didn't need to be my first officer for them to present a good story. Certainly he could wear the uniform I want him to for there to still be immersion?

I don't want the whole faction rewritten. I want the faction and story to be presented in a way the does not interfere with how I've played the game for three years now.

Quote:
It's completely analagous to someone who dislikes PvP going into a PvP scenario, and then complaining that PvP happened.
I love this actually, because forcing the KDF into the PVP niche was what pissed so many people off in STO to begin with, not forcing the Roumlans into a "Story Driven" niche is repeating past mistakes.
- Formerly Varrangian

Last edited by varrvarr; 05-03-2013 at 12:56 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 120
05-03-2013, 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by varrvarr View Post
I love this actually, because forcing the KDF into the PVP niche was what pissed so many people off in STO to begin with, not forcing the Roumlans into a "Story Driven" niche is repeating past mistakes.
I must have missed the part where Romulans won't have access to the Foundry, STFs, FEs or PvP.

Oh. Right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by varrvarr View Post
I don't want the whole faction rewritten. I want the faction and story to be presented in a way the does not interfere with how I've played the game for three years now.
Normally I'd go paragraph by paragraph, but you've summed up your entire position so succinctly right here I don't have to. We're right back to "I want everything my way now".

For someone who claims to be at least something of a roleplayer, you're showing a marked inability to adapt and thrive in circumstances that aren't a 100% sandboxed story.
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