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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 36
# 11
05-03-2013, 12:08 PM
I enjoy both-- the Odyssey can take more of a beating, the Vesta can spike more damage... but I wanted to disagree about the Aux Cannons. They're not useless-- but they're not as useful as they seem.

They're fore weapons only, so even if you equip a full set across the front, that's only 50% of your weapon slots.

So yeah, you ramp up your aux power, nerf your weapon power, and for those three cannon, great! ... but the three rear weapon slots are getting nothing, and that's if you're at 50% Weapons power.

If you're less than 50% power, you're getting a penalty to energy weapon damage, so the only option is to equip torpedoes and mines.

Since you can't fire more than one torpedo at once, you're going to have to mix types, in order to stagger the cooldowns-- which makes it difficult to fit a an appropriate damage type for the torpedoes.

I'm not saying they can't be viable, but in my opinion, they make the ship build considerably more complex, rather than easier.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,050
# 12
05-03-2013, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krendig View Post
So yeah, you ramp up your aux power, nerf your weapon power, and for those three cannon, great! ... but the three rear weapon slots are getting nothing, and that's if you're at 50% Weapons power.

If you're less than 50% power, you're getting a penalty to energy weapon damage, so the only option is to equip torpedoes and mines.
You can skill where you have more weapon energy, or do things like run the Aventine version and Jem'Hadar engines to get above 50. The new warpcores coming later this month should help out quite a bit (specifically the A to W ones) with making this far less of an issue to get around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krendig View Post
Since you can't fire more than one torpedo at once, you're going to have to mix types, in order to stagger the cooldowns-- which makes it difficult to fit a an appropriate damage type for the torpedoes.
You shouldn't need to mix types, the cooldowns are per torp not per type now, and if you do mix types, there's the Adapted MACO two-piece bonus of +25% torp damage to all types.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krendig View Post
I'm not saying they can't be viable, but in my opinion, they make the ship build considerably more complex, rather than easier.
Agreed that the Vesta is a bit hard to peg down and get going well, but the Aux cannons make it easier to not have to constantly pop batteries and redirect energy to be able to fire off your Sci abilities, pending you go with them.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 13
05-03-2013, 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krendig View Post
I enjoy both-- the Odyssey can take more of a beating, the Vesta can spike more damage... but I wanted to disagree about the Aux Cannons. They're not useless-- but they're not as useful as they seem.

They're fore weapons only, so even if you equip a full set across the front, that's only 50% of your weapon slots.

So yeah, you ramp up your aux power, nerf your weapon power, and for those three cannon, great! ... but the three rear weapon slots are getting nothing, and that's if you're at 50% Weapons power.

If you're less than 50% power, you're getting a penalty to energy weapon damage, so the only option is to equip torpedoes and mines.

Since you can't fire more than one torpedo at once, you're going to have to mix types, in order to stagger the cooldowns-- which makes it difficult to fit a an appropriate damage type for the torpedoes.

I'm not saying they can't be viable, but in my opinion, they make the ship build considerably more complex, rather than easier.
In my opinion you're looking at this from the wrong angle. If you just wanted to do weapon damage, you'd be right (and you might want to think about not getting a Vesta in the first place), but if you want your sci abilities to be your primary role with solid DPS in support the Aux cannons really shine. They let you max out your Aux power, run weapons power way down (mine is around 50/25) and still do excellent damage. You do lose damage from your rear weapons relative to running high weapons power, but fore DHCs are always going to make up the majority of your DPS, so it's not too horribly painful. However, I would never run rear torps on a Vesta, you need the front arc too much and it doesn't have the turn rate to swap arcs quickly.

The way I see it, the Vesta is the first sci ship to really be able to be a sci ship, without having to compromise on everything to achieve a balance between its intended role and actual effectiveness. Of course, even the Vesta suffers from the fact that sci abilities are painfully weak no matter what you do, and it can only do as well as it does because it has the ability to get effectiveness without sacrificing sci capability. Which would make it terrifyingly OP if an RSV were actually balanced against a Patrol Escort (and that makes me half wish it had never been released, even as I rely on it).

Last edited by jadensecura; 05-03-2013 at 04:49 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 546
# 14
05-03-2013, 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by howiedizzle View Post
Fleet Excelsior... Thank me later...
Agreed.
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa (2006)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 133
# 15
05-03-2013, 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by howiedizzle View Post
Fleet Excelsior... Thank me later...
Not sure if this is a joke?
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,921
# 16
05-03-2013, 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundwisdom View Post
Not sure if this is a joke?
It would have to be a joke. Because if they're going to recommend an option that isn't either of the ships the OP was asking about, and they were serious, they'd have already recommended the JHAS.
Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 27
# 17
05-04-2013, 12:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
In my opinion you're looking at this from the wrong angle. If you just wanted to do weapon damage, you'd be right (and you might want to think about not getting a Vesta in the first place), but if you want your sci abilities to be your primary role with solid DPS in support the Aux cannons really shine. They let you max out your Aux power, run weapons power way down (mine is around 50/25) and still do excellent damage. You do lose damage from your rear weapons relative to running high weapons power, but fore DHCs are always going to make up the majority of your DPS, so it's not too horribly painful. However, I would never run rear torps on a Vesta, you need the front arc too much and it doesn't have the turn rate to swap arcs quickly.

The way I see it, the Vesta is the first sci ship to really be able to be a sci ship, without having to compromise on everything to achieve a balance between its intended role and actual effectiveness. Of course, even the Vesta suffers from the fact that sci abilities are painfully weak no matter what you do, and it can only do as well as it does because it has the ability to get effectiveness without sacrificing sci capability. Which would make it terrifyingly OP if an RSV were actually balanced against a Patrol Escort (and that makes me half wish it had never been released, even as I rely on it).
That's exactly my point! If I were in a "normal" Sci ship my Power allocation still wouldn't be beyond 50 weps and I'd have to sacrifice 25 aux power to get there because plainly I'm not suicidal enough to set my shields to 25.
So with the Aux cannons I'm getting lots more punch than I ever would with a normal weapons setup on a regular Sci ship. With Warp Core & Weapons System skills, Jem'hadar engines and an efficient Saurian BOFF my weapons energy is 53/25 and whatever that squeezes out of the one Phaser turret and Kinetic beam I have in the rear I gladly take as an added bonus.
Because of the limited weapons power I decided against a 2nd Turret, 53 ain't enough to fuel 3 weapons effectively, instead I put in a Tricobalt Torp... makes for a nice Kiss goodbye if you have to turn tail and run against the big guys
For those Situations where you need extra DPS there's always the Quantum Field Focus Phaser Console (which gets boosted by the Phaser Relays, too btw.) I'm getting 3000+ DPS out of that one for 12 seconds straight and the 3 min cooldown is just right to put it to use against both Transformers in Infected: Conduit.
That one saved the day more than once helping to bring those things down in time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 139
# 18
05-04-2013, 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by howiedizzle View Post
Fleet Excelsior... Thank me later...
or Fleet Assault... the Odyssey did not impress me, looks like the "Love Boat".
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,137
# 19
05-04-2013, 02:43 AM
Whatever makes you happy.

I will give the Vesta my full support though. It's a wonderfully flexible ship that can handle whatever job you throw at it, and do it well. Provided shield-ignoring weapons aren't involved(it does have a fragile hull), it's by far the tankiest ship I have. My kinetic specialist can tank elite tac cubes indefinitely and clear a side of KASE, while also covering probes, by themself.

My main advice for the ship is to not fall into the trap of trying to fit it like a traditional escort - it will always be inferior to actual blaster-boats. As a torpedo boat, it has the potential to match all but the most elite pvp escort builds. Alternatively, there are very few ships that can match it in a support role(Fleet Corsair is the closest KDF counterpart, they're both up there with the Ambassador/Kamarag).
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 219
# 20
05-04-2013, 02:54 AM
As with what others have said.....depends on what you like doing...I have 12 toons...1 engineer flies the Vesta and i tank it like no other......on the other hand the Oddy i fly with another engineer can do more dps and sustain itself more efficiently with repairs and energy boosts/subsystem repairs

I can tank almost identically on both ships but with massively different styles...


The Vesta is 24k shields and builf to shield tank anything plus 125 aux is pretty peachy too

The oddy is also a tank but approaches it from polarize hull and Aux to inertial dampeners and pure massive hullking hull points to survive a slug fest....

My vesta sits in one place and tanks...my cruier always moves. Both rely on jevonite hardpoints too

Edit....the consoles are pretty nifty but I find they gimp the ships more then they help them for both classes
Napoleon's final defeat came at Waterloo. Must've been embarrassing. You're the f'ing emperor. You conquered all of Europe, only to lose in a place with a stupid name like Waterloo. Or Watergate, or Whitewater. Note to politicans: Stay on land.

Last edited by adabisi; 05-04-2013 at 02:56 AM.
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