Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 362
# 11
05-04-2013, 01:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eklinaar View Post
CaptainGeko has said in multiple interviews now that he wants to improve cruisers specifically by giving them something unique that other ships don't have. He's said that escorts are good in the state they are in, especially with access to cannons, and that science ships are pretty good but he is thinking of adding a secondary deflector to them, but that he's having trouble coming up with something for cruisers that is balanced.
Science Vessels need more than a secondary deflector if they're going to be "good." That high shield modifier is all they have going for them. Let's recap:

Science Vessels have the fewest weapon slots out of every ship class, and they're forced to run low weapons power to get the most out of their support and healing capabilities. Simultaneous cycling of beam arrays drain massive amounts of power, handicapping their damage potential even further.

With the exception of Feedback Pulse, offensive Science powers are total garbage. The Borg have high passive resistance to shield and power drains. As if being worthless in PvE isn't enough, players have high passive resistance to them through Power Insulators, which is a low-investment skill present on virtually every endgame deflector dish. Couple this with the fact that drain powers have low values to start with, and it's a recipe for disaster. Gravity Well can barely hold Probes, and it does no appreciable damage unless you're sitting in the dead center of it. Its range drop-off extends about as far as the effect sprite.

As a ship class, it's a massive design failure and needs to be examined from the ground up. Science Vessels need to have their damage types segregated from Tactical Captain buff powers so their control powers can be made useful again. Drain skills need higher base numbers for the disproportionate amount of resistance to be balanced.

Basically, Science Vessels need their skills to compensate for their utterly lacking energy weapon damage. That's how they were designed. As of right now, they're not even close to offsetting it. There needs to be a balance pass on all Science powers as soon as possible. It can't and shouldn't be put off any longer.

The only Science Vessels that have come close to addressing this are the Vesta-class variants, and that's only because of their incredibly lazy solution of slapping dual heavy cannons on it that are powered by auxiliary systems instead of weapons.

Last edited by starboardnacelle; 05-04-2013 at 01:28 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,632
# 12
05-04-2013, 01:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starboardnacelle View Post
Science Vessels need more than a secondary deflector if they're going to be "good." That high shield modifier is all they have going for them. Let's recap:

Science Vessels have the fewest weapon slots out of every ship class, and they're forced to run low weapons power to get the most out of their support and healing capabilities. Simultaneous cycling of beam arrays drain massive amounts of power, handicapping their damage potential even further.

With the exception of Feedback Pulse, offensive Science powers are total garbage. The Borg have high passive resistance to shield and power drains. As if being worthless in PvE isn't enough, players have high passive resistance to them through Power Insulators, which are a low-investment skill present on virtually every endgame deflector dish. Couple this with the fact that the skills had low values to start with, and it's a recipe for disaster. Gravity Well can barely hold Probes, and it does no appreciable damage unless you're sitting in the dead center of it. Its range drop-off extends about as far as the effect sprite.

As a ship class, it's a massive design failure and needs to be examined from the ground up. Science Vessels need to have their damage types segregated from Tactical Captain buff powers so their control powers can be made useful again. Drain skills need higher base numbers for the disproportionate amount of resistance to be balanced.

Basically, Science Vessels need their skills to compensate for their utterly lacking energy weapon damage. That's how they were designed. As of right now, they're not even close to offsetting it. There needs to be a balance pass on all Science powers as soon as possible. It can't and shouldn't be put off any longer.

The only Science Vessels that have come close to addressing this are the Vesta-class variants, and that's only because of their incredibly lazy solution of slapping dual heavy cannons on it that are powered by auxiliary systems instead of weapons.
Good rant but off topic.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 131
# 13
05-04-2013, 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
The extra BOFF slot I could see...only if it was actually worth while. This is probably really OP but...instead of a new, and probably not very useful ensign, why not instead bump up another BOFf to the next level.

Honestly, the only thing I want for cruisers right now is just more ensign BOFF choices for their engineering BOFFs.
This is quite a contradiction.... 1st. no ensign slot and at the end you do want ensign ENG, but with additional abilities to choose from.
TBH... I have 2 different (Battle) Cruisers at the moment... The regular Negh'Var and the Fleet Negh'Var. The first has a 3rd ENG ensign slot, the fleet version has UNI ensign slot.
My BOFF setup in my fleet BC is as I like it, probably could be more efficient, but it works for me.
However I cannot figure out what I am supposed to do with the 3rd ENG ensign in my regular BC.
ET1 and EPtS that is all I actually need from the ensign ENG... Everything else will just be unused because it would interfere with the use of EPtS since it will share the same cooldown timer.

My suggestions...
- Make all ensign BOFF's universal.
- Give all (Battle) Cruisers an additional ability without the need of an additional BOFF. like Boarding Party, Aceton Beam or Extend Shields.
- Give a passive hull/shield regen. boost.

Not all are or should be required of course.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 629
# 14
05-04-2013, 01:54 AM
Or: All boff slots on cruisers are max rank.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 410
There was a suggestion in another thread (I couldn't find it when I had a quick search) which went along the lines of:

Active ability consoles (things like the jemmy consoles, ams, isometric charge etc etc) should be devices. That way they do not take up console slots for the passive things (neutronium, field gen, +phaser etc)

Also it would mean that cruisers could bring more interesteing toys to the party making them more versatile, whereas escorts would not have the same amount of choice...(sci's would be sumwhere in between) due to the number of device slots each class of vessel is granted.

I really liked this idea, and think that if it could be implemented would make Cryptic MONEY $ $ $. The reason for this is most of such ability consoles are currently only available on zen ships (or in lock boxes for cross faction/lock box ship versions). Alot of people don't purchase them / open boxes for them since when compared to a passive console they are not worth it.

However, compared to an empty device slot, or a battery, they probably are. They would be opening up a whole section of the community who may want to make these purchases at some point... everyone wins (DABO)!!


...because not listening to player feedback is full of win.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 205
# 16
05-04-2013, 02:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guilli88 View Post
Or: All boff slots on cruisers are max rank.
OH GOD...We're gonna get tanking, crowd control cruisers that'll debuff everyone's damage to near 0. Ever tried running Aceton Beam 3 on an A2B build? Or for that matter, Viral Matrix? o_o

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackal1701apw View Post
There was a suggestion in another thread (I couldn't find it when I had a quick search) which went along the lines of:

Active ability consoles (things like the jemmy consoles, ams, isometric charge etc etc) should be devices. That way they do not take up console slots for the passive things (neutronium, field gen, +phaser etc)

Also it would mean that cruisers could bring more interesteing toys to the party making them more versatile, whereas escorts would not have the same amount of choice...(sci's would be sumwhere in between) due to the number of device slots each class of vessel is granted.

I really liked this idea, and think that if it could be implemented would make Cryptic MONEY $ $ $. The reason for this is most of such ability consoles are currently only available on zen ships (or in lock boxes for cross faction/lock box ship versions). Alot of people don't purchase them / open boxes for them since when compared to a passive console they are not worth it.

However, compared to an empty device slot, or a battery, they probably are. They would be opening up a whole section of the community who may want to make these purchases at some point... everyone wins (DABO)!!
Interesting indeed. Though escorts would also get 2-3 device slots that'll give them those "interesting toys" to the party.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 131
# 17 XO Station Boff
05-04-2013, 02:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackal1701apw View Post
There was a suggestion in another thread (I couldn't find it when I had a quick search) which went along the lines of:

Active ability consoles (things like the jemmy consoles, ams, isometric charge etc etc) should be devices. That way they do not take up console slots for the passive things (neutronium, field gen, +phaser etc)

Also it would mean that cruisers could bring more interesteing toys to the party making them more versatile, whereas escorts would not have the same amount of choice...(sci's would be sumwhere in between) due to the number of device slots each class of vessel is granted.
I like this idea, could be universal to all ship classes to increase the revenue scope, Device slots need a lot more love tbh

One of my suggestions would be a XO Station Slot that you trade in X numbers (3 probably) of Purple Doffs for a specific type i.e. Operations, Tactical etc for a XO Boff that does not interact as a normai Boff would i.e. Away Team, Equipped, shows up on bridge (though maybe the tech could be there for using the Tailor and having them on the interior bridge map). Common XO Boffs would be available from a Vendor, show up in Doff Packs etc for greater accessibility to the player market.

The trade in of the Purple Doffs creates a specific and significant XO Boff that has a power or series of ship traits that augment the capabilities of the cruiser.

People could slot and trade different types of XO Boffs, again some could be revenue generating for PWE as well.

This would link into the Executive Officer, Doff development theme that's been toyed around too of Doffs turning into Boffs etc.

Cruisers generally have larger bridge staff so an XO Station Slot would make sense to give this class of ship a greater sense of size and capability. Some of the more advanced cruiser may contain 2 or more XO slots for example however this would depend on how much of a balance could be struck with the potential boosts etc they could provide to a Cruiser.
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