Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,767
# 771
05-03-2013, 09:35 PM
in response to new Priority One Podcast

http://priorityonepodcast.com/priori...omulan-rivera/


klingon fleet ships for launch of LoR would be great, all those raptors and some bops still could be made. a fleet tkonco with an excelsior setup and a c store negvar with the underslung cannons gowron's ship had with a disruptor version of the wing guns the andorian ship had. 5 forward weapons too!

for the vet ships, just a fleet version for us life timers i would like as soon as possible now. if its so much trouble to let only life timers use fleet vet ships, i wouldn't mind everyone having access at this point, but only we should get the transform console, from the tier 5 version. charge people 4 mods for the fleet version, and have it not come with the unique transform console, charge us life timers 1 mod for them. so the ship isnt unique for vets anymore, but the transform mode is.


ugg, theres no canon saying romulan ships have to have a crappy turn rate, only that their warp speed is slightly sub par at certain points! the original romulan bop did not have a warp core, or singularity core. it had only a impulse reactor, witch means a fusion reactor. proboly cant generate as much power as a M/AM reactor, and is not nearly as fuel efficient, running on only deuterium. in balance of terror fuel was a big concern for the romulans.

in the episode tin man a d'deridex couldn't not keep up with a galaxy class easily. thats just a warp nacelle coil tech issue, the feds just had more advanced warp speed tech.

none of this has anything to do with turn rate! the d'deridex, though large, is mostly a hollow shell. depending on how thick the wings are, if they are like a single deck or 3, the ships volume would ether be about the same as a galaxy or negvar, or 5 times higher. regardless, a ship cant be an effective cloak and daggers style ship, which it absolutely was, with less then a turn rate of 9 or 10.

how can such a large ship justify turning well enough? well, you guys just have to raise the lowest a ship can turn, which is 5, to about 8. bump every cruiser and carrier by 1 to 3 turn rate, and the d'deridex can still be the worst turner, but be used like it should be used.

as far as its current station and console setup goes, that should be swapped with the ha'apax. that ships got no established history, yet it has the tac heavy station setup the d'deridex deserves. the ambassador class station setup is nice, for a large fed style support cruisers, thats a better fit to that much thicker and larger ha'apax. the d'deridex should not be limited to 2 tac consoles, just because the galaxy class is.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 466
# 772
05-03-2013, 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
It is COMPLETELY overpowered, because at that point you are equal to any Klingon or Fed captain, except for having a Battle Cloak and all five singularity powers available at full charge. How on earth is that fair that Romulan captains can spend as long as they like at "full charge", with six powers that are not available at all to Fed captains? So WHAT if they take a hit after they use the singularity, or drop a bit when they use their cloak? This is not balanced. This is OP.
So being equal to fed and klingon captains is over powered ? Your spending your time at full charge without using a power.... I would even say the system should loose power faster then it does now while out of combat if they were to implement it though...

Plus you forget romulans have to gain those charges so while they are warming up fed and Klingon will still have the advantage...

second their battle cloak is worse then kdf's battle cloak or even cloak at full charge.. so there are disadvantages...

And the powers have situation uses and are not I repeat not game changers i would even have to go as to far as to say a lot of consoles are better power wise then the romulan singularity core ones. The only one I have seen that does infact change the course of battle at least if we were speaking pvp is quantum absorption and maybe the overload thing but I have yet to test that one.

Here's also another thing warp core's have over singularity cores they have a max power bonus giving fed klingon ships possible better shield resistances and aux powers and Regen then romulan war birds ever can have.

They also have the power gain from one system to another say you have 130 to shields 7.5% goes to blank system or even weapon to shields, they are really powerful when it comes to power.

Singularity cores only increase power to one system and its based on singularity power, other then that rare ones at least have nothing that increases power.

While I do concede that we really need to test everything with top level gear in good skilled pvp. To truly say what I'm saying is OP or not I have no reason currently to think that it would be.

Last edited by cryptkeeper0; 05-03-2013 at 11:20 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 759
# 773
05-04-2013, 01:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
in response to new Priority One Podcast

http://priorityonepodcast.com/priori...omulan-rivera/


klingon fleet ships for launch of LoR would be great, all those raptors and some bops still could be made. a fleet tkonco with an excelsior setup and a c store negvar with the underslung cannons gowron's ship had with a disruptor version of the wing guns the andorian ship had. 5 forward weapons too!

for the vet ships, just a fleet version for us life timers i would like as soon as possible now. if its so much trouble to let only life timers use fleet vet ships, i wouldn't mind everyone having access at this point, but only we should get the transform console, from the tier 5 version. charge people 4 mods for the fleet version, and have it not come with the unique transform console, charge us life timers 1 mod for them. so the ship isnt unique for vets anymore, but the transform mode is.


ugg, theres no canon saying romulan ships have to have a crappy turn rate, only that their warp speed is slightly sub par at certain points! the original romulan bop did not have a warp core, or singularity core. it had only a impulse reactor, witch means a fusion reactor. proboly cant generate as much power as a M/AM reactor, and is not nearly as fuel efficient, running on only deuterium. in balance of terror fuel was a big concern for the romulans.

in the episode tin man a d'deridex couldn't not keep up with a galaxy class easily. thats just a warp nacelle coil tech issue, the feds just had more advanced warp speed tech.

none of this has anything to do with turn rate! the d'deridex, though large, is mostly a hollow shell. depending on how thick the wings are, if they are like a single deck or 3, the ships volume would ether be about the same as a galaxy or negvar, or 5 times higher. regardless, a ship cant be an effective cloak and daggers style ship, which it absolutely was, with less then a turn rate of 9 or 10.

how can such a large ship justify turning well enough? well, you guys just have to raise the lowest a ship can turn, which is 5, to about 8. bump every cruiser and carrier by 1 to 3 turn rate, and the d'deridex can still be the worst turner, but be used like it should be used.

as far as its current station and console setup goes, that should be swapped with the ha'apax. that ships got no established history, yet it has the tac heavy station setup the d'deridex deserves. the ambassador class station setup is nice, for a large fed style support cruisers, thats a better fit to that much thicker and larger ha'apax. the d'deridex should not be limited to 2 tac consoles, just because the galaxy class is.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...ry-romulan.htm <=this discusses romulan warp history and suggests that the romulans did have warp technology back at that time and that the episode in which scotty says the warbird just has impulse power could have been because the enterprise didn't recognize what romulans use as a warp core as being such, or that perhaps they had used up all their warp power to use their uber weapon... or whatever. But yeah, it makes many good points as to how it wouldn't really make sense for romulans not to have warp drive.

When you say the D'deridex has the boff seating of the ambassador, do you mean ensign tac, lt. tac, commander engineer, lt. engineer, lt.com sci? Or do you mean ensign tac, lt. tac, commander engineer, lt.com sci, lt. universal?

If the z-store/fleet D'deridex had the ambassador layout with the universal lt, I would like that very much. It should be quite versatile.

Is the console layout the same as the galaxy class? Yes, it is stated that a D'deridex has comparable firepower to a galaxy, but that does not mean identical. A D'deridex could have more firepower but not so much so that it's considered blatantly superior, which I think it would be likely for a D'deridex to have more firepower, what with the romulans being imperialistic, and the federation arming their vessels more as a matter of keeping pace with potential enemy threats and self defense rather than conquering. So a romulan ship being the more aggressive of the two makes sense.

I know I'm not terribly fond of the low turn rate, but I've gotten the bortas to move relatively well, so I'm trying not to be overly concerned with it, especially since battle cloak will kick it up even further. Also, they could give it a poor turn rate but a really good inertia rating so at least it wouldn't be fighting against itself too much. The justification could be that to compensate for the gravitational anchor (the black hole) at the heart of their singularity drives, romulan vessels have advanced inertial dampers/antigravity fields/technobable that serves to reduce the weight of not only the core, but the ship as well.

Plus, if they give the fleet D'deridex the console layout of the fleet galaxy, it would have plenty of engineering consoles to help compensate for the turn with an rcs or two... Though I do think that since damage is essentially king in this game, and tactical consoles don't suffer diminishing returns, and since eng and sci damage/control powers are so weak, tactical boff stations and consoles are understandably what everyone's screaming for. Hopefully the devs will be rolling out some tweaks to eng/sci damage/crowd control powers/debuffs to make them more competitive with tac's pure damage potential. And buffing the eng consoles so that rcs and armor aren't the only two things people use would make those engineering slots far more appealing... +10 power consoles instead of +4, emergency forcefields that clearly keep your crew alive much more effectively...

Which reminds me, is the crew death/disable mechanic really working as intended? It seems like the crew doesn't do anything once injured, and they all get a paper cut within a few seconds of entering combat, so one of the big advantages one is supposed to have for having a big crew goes flying out the proverbial airlock. Also, ships with large crews (which are also large ships) one would think would have large/multiple medical facilities to get the crew back on their feet faster, but as it stands, you get out of combat in a defiant and your 50 crew pop right back up, but a carrier or cruiser will be sitting around for several minutes waiting for their crew to come back. So not only does it seem that the large crew doesn't provide a significant bonus to repair/surviveability, but they also take forever to come back up to provide that supposed benefit... so it ultimately seems that a large crew is a negative, not a positive feature of a ship. Which is relevant to this romulan ship feedback thing as I presume the D'deridex will have a 1000+crew and that massive Ha'apax will likely have several thousand... so yeah.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,327
# 774
05-04-2013, 02:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
*snip*

ugg, theres no canon saying romulan ships have to have a crappy turn rate, only that their warp speed is slightly sub par at certain points! the original romulan bop did not have a warp core, or singularity core. it had only a impulse reactor, witch means a fusion reactor. proboly cant generate as much power as a M/AM reactor, and is not nearly as fuel efficient, running on only deuterium. in balance of terror fuel was a big concern for the romulans.

in the episode tin man a d'deridex couldn't not keep up with a galaxy class easily. thats just a warp nacelle coil tech issue, the feds just had more advanced warp speed tech.

none of this has anything to do with turn rate! the d'deridex, though large, is mostly a hollow shell. depending on how thick the wings are, if they are like a single deck or 3, the ships volume would ether be about the same as a galaxy or negvar, or 5 times higher. regardless, a ship cant be an effective cloak and daggers style ship, which it absolutely was, with less then a turn rate of 9 or 10.

how can such a large ship justify turning well enough? well, you guys just have to raise the lowest a ship can turn, which is 5, to about 8. bump every cruiser and carrier by 1 to 3 turn rate, and the d'deridex can still be the worst turner, but be used like it should be used.

as far as its current station and console setup goes, that should be swapped with the ha'apax. that ships got no established history, yet it has the tac heavy station setup the d'deridex deserves. the ambassador class station setup is nice, for a large fed style support cruisers, thats a better fit to that much thicker and larger ha'apax. the d'deridex should not be limited to 2 tac consoles, just because the galaxy class is.
I agree with you on alot of things on this board, but the D'Deridex is supposed to be sluggish as hell in its handling.

Canon? Practically EVERY Star Trek scene that the D'Deridex is shown. At NO instance have we ever, *ever* seen the D'Deridex do any notable maneuvering in combat or to save its own self in combat. Not in any TNG episode where this Warbird has been shown many, many times. Not in any of the DS9 episdoes, to include the Romulans' entry into the Dominion War. Not when the combined Obsidian Order - Tal Shiar fleet went to the Founder homeworld for a surprise attack... and when the Dominion's trap was sprung, absolutely NONE of the D'Deridexes that made the entirety of that fleet were able to maneuver of note to escape. In none of the Dominion War battle scenes have the D'Deridexes shown any inclination of notable maneuvering.

At least the Galaxy Class users have a valid complaint about its turning because the shows and movies have repeatedly shown the class to be able to do it.

But the D'Deridex? No. It's like a brick in the beach.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 68
# 775
05-04-2013, 06:55 AM
My only problem is a lack of dedicated Tac, Sci, and Eng ships for the Romulans for the lower levels, and even the higher Tiers as well. As I've said in other topics, a somewhat easy fix would be to pull a Vesta/Odyssey with the Warbirds, same ship just different layouts and boff setups. It will fix a few problems first the lack of ships, and two it'll give each class a fair start and path to go down when leveling up. I can't be the only one that doesn't want to fly a Tactical based ship when leveling up a Sci, or Eng toon? Now the problems with going that route would be pretty clear, basically we'd have new content that would need to get tested and balanced. I just want a Sci Based D'Deridex :'(
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 243
# 776
05-04-2013, 07:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admiraldeathl View Post
My only problem is a lack of dedicated Tac, Sci, and Eng ships for the Romulans for the lower levels, and even the higher Tiers as well. As I've said in other topics, a somewhat easy fix would be to pull a Vesta/Odyssey with the Warbirds, same ship just different layouts and boff setups. It will fix a few problems first the lack of ships, and two it'll give each class a fair start and path to go down when leveling up. I can't be the only one that doesn't want to fly a Tactical based ship when leveling up a Sci, or Eng toon? Now the problems with going that route would be pretty clear, basically we'd have new content that would need to get tested and balanced. I just want a Sci Based D'Deridex :'(
My suspicion has always been that the Scimitar will be the three-ship Odyssey / Bortasque equivalent.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 243
# 777
05-04-2013, 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptkeeper0 View Post
So being equal to fed and klingon captains is over powered ? Your spending your time at full charge without using a power.... I would even say the system should loose power faster then it does now while out of combat if they were to implement it though...

Plus you forget romulans have to gain those charges so while they are warming up fed and Klingon will still have the advantage...

second their battle cloak is worse then kdf's battle cloak or even cloak at full charge.. so there are disadvantages...

And the powers have situation uses and are not I repeat not game changers i would even have to go as to far as to say a lot of consoles are better power wise then the romulan singularity core ones. The only one I have seen that does infact change the course of battle at least if we were speaking pvp is quantum absorption and maybe the overload thing but I have yet to test that one.

Here's also another thing warp core's have over singularity cores they have a max power bonus giving fed klingon ships possible better shield resistances and aux powers and Regen then romulan war birds ever can have.

They also have the power gain from one system to another say you have 130 to shields 7.5% goes to blank system or even weapon to shields, they are really powerful when it comes to power.

Singularity cores only increase power to one system and its based on singularity power, other then that rare ones at least have nothing that increases power.

While I do concede that we really need to test everything with top level gear in good skilled pvp. To truly say what I'm saying is OP or not I have no reason currently to think that it would be.
The more I use the Singularity Powers, the more uses and value I've found for them. Just this morning, I found out that I can shut down a Unimatrix for 30 seconds with Singularity Jump; rush in, drop it, and you're 5 km away, outside the reduced range that it can see to attack. It just sat there for the full 30 sec while we hammered away at it...and that can be applied to gateways and tac cubes in eSTFs as well.

Your premise that the singularity powers are not worth the power reduction is flawed; they are too powerful to give to a ship full power levels (even temporarily, much less when the singularity is also at its most powerful) AND the singularity powers. You need to work with them more and learn their real value.

As for the warp core bonus, I'm fairly certain that will be like efficiency and calculate based off the power level assigned, not the final result; so a ship with 100 power allocated to shields can get 7.5 points elsewhere, even if their final power level is 130 shields.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 466
# 778
05-04-2013, 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
The more I use the Singularity Powers, the more uses and value I've found for them. Just this morning, I found out that I can shut down a Unimatrix for 30 seconds with Singularity Jump; rush in, drop it, and you're 5 km away, outside the reduced range that it can see to attack. It just sat there for the full 30 sec while we hammered away at it...and that can be applied to gateways and tac cubes in eSTFs as well.

Your premise that the singularity powers are not worth the power reduction is flawed; they are too powerful to give to a ship full power levels (even temporarily, much less when the singularity is also at its most powerful) AND the singularity powers. You need to work with them more and learn their real value.

As for the warp core bonus, I'm fairly certain that will be like efficiency and calculate based off the power level assigned, not the final result; so a ship with 100 power allocated to shields can get 7.5 points elsewhere, even if their final power level is 130 shields.
You assume too much especially that i think the powers aren't worth a power reduction, I meant none the slightest. I just don't agree with their current design as far as how forced they are, and how people have no choose in the matter. Even if i do like the singularity powers and have nothing personally to hate about them.

Temporarily increase in power won't mean they would be overpowered becuase its only at that power for as long as you decide not to use the power, and if you really want to make it hard to maintain it could increase exponentially rather then linearly. So that even loosing one power level will take a big chunk of the gained power out. But only granting a flat bonus of +10 to all systems at the end.

But lol the unimatrix is easy already.... 30 second disable isn't that great considering how long it takes to kill it. I've knock out the weapons on unimatrix quite a
bit granted only for 5 seconds but I've seen good science vessels do it for much longer.
Ensign
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 24
# 779
05-04-2013, 09:27 AM
Fleet T'varo Retrofit:

This console layout suggests that this ship is THE escort for the Romulans and as such has the 5 Tactical consoles so it can go toe to toe against the JHAS or the 5 Tac console Federation escorts.

One problem with that theory is why does it have the enhanced battle cloak as well if it's supposed to be doing so much fighting outside of cloak?

I think an enhanced battle cloak equipped ship would be better suited to hiding and striking with mines, torpedoes and sci magic skills.

Also, with a Lt. Commander engineering boff station instead of science, it has out of cloak survivability as its priority over sci magic shenanigans which again is what enhanced battle cloaks should be for.

A more proper arrangement of boffs would allow for a Lt. Commander Science station as well as a 4 Tac, 2 Eng, 4 Sci console layout which would allow for the traditional enhanced battle cloak kind of ship.

So Cryptic, which is it going to be; an out and out dog-fighting escort that can hang with the best of em or an almost always cloaked stealth bomber.

If it's the former then the enhanced battle cloak should be moved to a different ship and if it's the latter then fix the boff and console arrangements accordingly.


Fleet Dhelan Retrofit:

What is this ship supposed to be?

Is it:

(A) A terribly underpowered escort of some kind.

With only 5 Tactical Boff powers and 3 Tactical consoles this escorts "firepower" is right up there with Federation science ships.

(B) The first Commander Tactical boff light cruiser with an amazing turn rate and lousy hull for a cruiser.

It could be the first cruiser with a Tactical Commander boff station but with a 3 Tac console allottment and only 3 rear weapons, firepower will be kept in check.

With only a Lt. Comm Eng station and 34,500 hull it will be the most frail cruiser in game but at least with its 16 turn rate it may be able to have a higher defence rating than most cruisers.

(C) The T'varo layout given to the wrong ship and vice versa.

With its limited, by escort standards, 5 tactical stations and the identical console layout to the Fleet B'rel Retrofit maybe there was a copy and paste error with this and the Fleet T'varo Retrofit.

By the way; the Fleet B'rel really should have gotten a 4th Sci console and not eng.

As it stands now, it's a rather bleh excuse for a cruiser or escort.


What this ship could be instead:

(A) Give it a Commander and Lt. Commander Tac station with 4 Tac consoles to match the 6 Fed escorts with that layout, 2 of which have 5 forward weapons.

(B) Give it a Commander and Lt. Commander Tac station with 5 Tac Consoles to match the 3 Fed escorts with that layout, 1 of which has 5 forward weapons.

This should be done only if the Fleet T'varo Retrofit loses the 5th Tac console.

(C) Totally re-invent this ship from the ground up.

Make this the games first science escort hybrid, if you don't count the quite powerful Vesta of course.

(1) Lt. Comm Tac, Commander Sci, Ens. Sci, Lt. Eng, Lt. Uni

(2) 3 Tac, 2 Eng, 5 Sci consoles

(3) 4 Fore weapons, 2 Aft weapons

(4) Only if the Fleet T'varo stays with its out of cloak build as it has now and loses its enhanced battle cloak, then give the enhanced battle cloak to the Dhelan so it can be the cloaked torpedo bomber, mine layer sci magic show specialist.

If and only if the enhanced battle cloak and ship repositioning happens then also swap the special consoles for the retrofit versions of the T'varo and Dhelan as that Plasma Destabilizer belongs with an enhanced battle cloak ship.

(5) If the Dhelan does not get the enhanced battle cloak then it should have the Sensor Analysis and Subsystem Targeting abilities added.


Fleet D'deridex Retrofit:

It can't possibly be the same or near same size as the Ha'apax so why is its turn rate so close?

Make the turn rate at least 6 as it can't be slower than an Odyssey can it; and give it a 3rd Tac console instead of the 5th Eng console.

I still prefer my earlier suggested Lt. Comm Tac, Comm Eng, Lt. Eng, Lt. Comm Sci 4 Boff suggestion for the Retrofit and a Lt. Uni on the Fleet Retrofit.

The Refit or D'ridthau has 3 Tac consoles so why does the Retrofit and Fleet Retrofit lose one?

As a heads up; is the D'ridthau supposed to have the lvl 40 ship console allotment of 9 instead of the proper +1 for a lvl 30 ship of 8?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 807
# 780
05-04-2013, 09:30 AM
just tested the singularity overcharge for a good while. Not impressed, it is a damage bonus yes, but less then a rapid fire 1. Should be of value to a ship with not enough tac slots to chain rapid fire/scatter volley/faw, but for ships that can, it is wasted.
Now, if one could overcharge on top of rapid, that would be good, but it doesn't seems to be the case.

-= ISE: 12:19 -=- CSE 12:41 -=- KASE 11:59 -=- HSe 8:06 total =-
-= KAGE 5:43 =-
[7:07] [Combat (Self)] Your Dual Disruptor Banks - Overload II deals 123086 (41096) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
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