Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 243
# 841
05-07-2013, 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toiva View Post
So, I came to some conclusions on the warbirds.

1) First of all, I will assume that the subsystem power disadvantage is a counter to all the singularity powers warbirds possess. Nothing more, nothing less.
The problem with this analysis is that your first premise is incorrect; the power level reduction is to counter BOTH the the singularity AND the battle cloak. They need to be factored together.

When you say warbird X has the shields of a Fed escort, that's not taking into account the regen and resistance penalty imposed by reduced shield power. They don't NEED a hull cut to be rendered squishy to balance the cloak, that is factored in elsewhere. When you say they have an extra weapon compared to the BoPs, that weapon is drawing from a reduced pool of powers, reducing the effectiveness of all the energy weapons. When you say it has the turning rate...well, you should have the idea by now.

The Singularity powers go hand in hand with the battle cloak; assuming one is a system that doesn't interact with the other is doing both a disservice.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,218
# 842
05-07-2013, 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
The problem with this analysis is that your first premise is incorrect; the power level reduction is to counter BOTH the the singularity AND the battle cloak. They need to be factored together.

When you say warbird X has the shields of a Fed escort, that's not taking into account the regen and resistance penalty imposed by reduced shield power. They don't NEED a hull cut to be rendered squishy to balance the cloak, that is factored in elsewhere. When you say they have an extra weapon compared to the BoPs, that weapon is drawing from a reduced pool of powers, reducing the effectiveness of all the energy weapons. When you say it has the turning rate...well, you should have the idea by now.

The Singularity powers go hand in hand with the battle cloak; assuming one is a system that doesn't interact with the other is doing both a disservice.
Sure, it's true that the reduced power levels do affect shields, manoeuvrability, healing, potentially damage. But I just don't see them as such a big disadvantage on Tribble. Some of the Singularity powers actually seem even useful. And I view Battlecloak as fairly strong.

However even if I'd consider the lowered power levels as a bigger disadvantage than I now think it is, I'd like to see the smaller warbirds a bit weaker still, and maybe even the D'Deridex and Ha'Apax buffed slightly.

In other words, I think the smaller warbirds are noticeably more potent than the larger ones (and I'd rather see those smaller ones somewhat reduced in effectiveness).
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia: Add Tier 6 staple KDF ship types: Carrier and Bird of prey.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 869
# 843
05-07-2013, 12:29 PM
I have a few issues with the design of the Ha'apax but I know those are probably subjective.

One thing thought that I think is less subjective is that it needs some kind of lighting or detail in its nose.

And all ships need a green/cyan window choice
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 61
# 844
05-07-2013, 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishkin View Post
I feel like at least the singularity mechanic is poorly explained. There's a little tooltip that says something like "fighting enemy ships causes a power up in your singularity", but I've not noticed that to be the case, and I'm not entirely sure what result it would have even if it did occur. I do occasionally click the button and get the energy wave, though, which is about as far as it goes.

On a totally unrelated note, the D'Deridex cruiser in the ship purchase screen has a turn rate of two.
I did like the first three they are well done. the tools were poor even in blogs but playing i did figure out when to get best result not alway with shock wave the send was the shadows looked like i massive science with photinic i could better ideas but not quite tested yet working the skills up on that. the best one i saw was and used quite a bit and acted like hull repair and was well used. Second point is the turn rate for several of warbirds including my tier 5 was to be tactical and runs like a carrier it way slow for what i expected but mogai was riright tio play even looking it over with a true tactical officer it might just rivial it self like it ment too
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 158
# 845
05-07-2013, 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toiva View Post
Some of the Singularity powers actually seem even useful.
Operative word underlined.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,169
# 846
05-07-2013, 07:16 PM
the fact that there was a massive change to every ship EXCEPT the d'deridex, the ship everyone is asking for further changes on, is not lost on me. the only ship i thought needed any change was the T'Varo with 5 tac stations and EBC.

ship change feedback

ok, so now the T'Varo isn't a cross between the bug and a brel anymore, so thats good. imagine its keeping the EBC? that should stay a brel unique thing imo. giving it the old Dehlan station and console setup was proboly a good choice for balancing it.


now the Dehlan is the escort of the group, with the 5 tac consoles. i its more balanced on that ship, with a more pedestrian turn rate, getting that boon. i really like the station setup, 2 LT eng with the LTC sci and a COM tac i can do some interesting things with.


the Dehlan having more heavy sci displaces the mogia, now its eng flavored. its got an armatige style station setup, but without the unpopular 3 tac ens. that LT uni i could see go ether way for eng or sci. ligitamatly great station setup on a great ship. it gets to keep 3 devices i see, to go with its destroyer turn rate. sorta the counterpart to the breen ship, only with that nice LT uni


not a thing to talk about for the d'deridex i see. why? did it really not change? i can only hope it got the station and console setup the ha'apax lost, that would be perfect.


i see the ha'apax lost that regent station setup, and now its 1 universal ENS away from being just like the odessy and bortas. do it, make this the romulan flagship with the universal LTC and ENS with the COM eng. between the d'deridex and Ha'apax, we DONT need a 3rd huge war bird, being flagship over both, we dont even need the ha'apax being a ship bigger then the d'deridex! a ship larger then the d'deridex makes no sense, and that things not hollow, so it has massively more volume. cut the size of that model in half, and give it a 10 turn rate.


the Haakona change is head desk worthy, now nothing has a commander sci. WHY UNDO THAT? just to get the separation console i guess. now those arent 2 separate ships that do 2 separate things, 1 is just better then the other. why did you lessen the number of ship choices by 1? its just a ha'apax with a universal LTC, does it even look different?


no stats on the mirror romulan ships, what are they based on and whats different? let me guess, thats the only way to get a d'deridex with a prime universe level of tac, right? hope i can snag one wile supplies last. this STINKS of actual unique faction ships being placed in lock boxes, under the guise that they are mirror universe, as apposed to lock box ships being non faction only. mirror universe ships are an ensign swap ONLY, between 2 counterpart ships. there are no such counterparts here. what gets swaped? the T'Varo and Dehlan getting the setups they had before, under the guise of them being mirror? that undoes that balance pass. does the mirror hapax get its regent setup back? THIS IS NOT MIRROR, THIS IS UNIQUE FACTION SHIPS IN LOCKBOXES
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 05-07-2013 at 07:28 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 255
# 847
05-07-2013, 08:15 PM
Undo the T'Varo Retro and Fleet T'Varo changes please.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,218
# 848
05-07-2013, 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
the Haakona change is head desk worthy, now nothing has a commander sci. WHY UNDO THAT? just to get the separation console i guess. now those arent 2 separate ships that do 2 separate things, 1 is just better then the other. why did you lessen the number of ship choices by 1? its just a ha'apax with a universal LTC, does it even look different?


no stats on the mirror romulan ships, what are they based on and whats different? let me guess, thats the only way to get a d'deridex with a prime universe level of tac, right? hope i can snag one wile supplies last. this STINKS of actual unique faction ships being placed in lock boxes, under the guise that they are mirror universe, as apposed to lock box ships being non faction only. mirror universe ships are an ensign swap ONLY, between 2 counterpart ships. there are no such counterparts here. what gets swaped? the T'Varo and Dehlan getting the setups they had before, under the guise of them being mirror? that undoes that balance pass. does the mirror hapax get its regent setup back? THIS IS NOT MIRROR, THIS IS UNIQUE FACTION SHIPS IN LOCKBOXES
This is what some good soul posted in chat:
http://i.imgur.com/Fha3Uxi.png
Should be the 3 mirror warbirds, probably gonna change still (note the tac having 'fleet' 10 console slots, unlike the other 2).

Btw the descriptions would point to unique ships, not just Ha'Apax skins as I suspected.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia: Add Tier 6 staple KDF ship types: Carrier and Bird of prey.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 624
# 849
05-07-2013, 10:29 PM
Based on the information revealed in the patch notes, I'd like to request the following changes to the T'varo and Dhelan retrofits: Both these warbirds have an Ensign Tactical station. I would really like to see those changed to Ensign Science stations.

Why:
  • Considering the console disposition and the science-tilt nature of the warbirds, I believe it would be a gainful change for them.
  • If the universal station is used for science, science powers generally end up stacking in quantity fairly well. If it is used for engineering, science powers will still end up having a decent presence.
  • More importantly, using the universal station for tactical would not end up having the player stuck trying to find something useful to do with 3 ensign tactical powers. I know I hate being stuck with that on the Defiant/Armitage and I'd really like to see this avoided on those two warbirds.

Al Rivera vouched on the 4-hour Podcast UGC interview that these ships would be 'awesome'. Changing the T'varo/Dhelan retrofit Tac Ens for Sci Ens would go a long way into making it so in the eyes of this humble tester both for quality of life and because balance and theme would likely still be well adhered to.

Thank you.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 818
# 850
05-07-2013, 11:10 PM
Most of the romulan warbirds are getting +15 power in some way or another, but shouldn't the D'deridex and Ha'apax be getting +20 like cruisers do? So maybe +10 weapons +10 engines? or +10 weapons +5 engines and +5 to something else? Just seems odd that the big "cruisers" of the romulan side don't get +20 like the other massive cruisers. I mean... not THAT big of a deal... just... putting that out there...
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