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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 41
04-10-2013, 07:25 AM
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Also, I mentioned in another thread, but figure I should repeat here. When spec'ing/equiping into EPS the gains from switching power levels happend quickly. The drains slow down. Be carefull when going to a low aux setting w/intention of using Aux2batt. If aux2batt used while the drain is still taking effect it will nuke the aux entirely in most cases. For example if going from 100 -> 25 and aux2batt used @ 50 power followed by epta, w/say 20 gain, the net wouldn't be 30 power, but seems to be -45 + 25 for -20 aux since 50 to 5 is -45 and 5+20 is 25.
This is so crucial and if you're thinking about running A2B you really need to spend some time in the build until you can understand what's being described in this post. The quirky personality of this ability is something that takes a while to understand. It will be different based on your power transfer rate, skills, ship, active buffs, expiring buffs, etc, etc...
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 42
05-07-2013, 10:08 AM
Somebody asked about a Jem HEC build so I looked at my original post and realized some things have evolved, so I shamelessly bump my own thread to update it.

In that thread some people expressed a dissatisfaction with her turn, and it's true that she's only got a base 13. But, she's still got an escort inertia of 70. So she'll turn slower than a Defiant and faster than a Tor'Kaht, but she'll still accelerate (and brake) like a Defiant. She's still a zippy escort in a straight line is what I'm trying to say. So you can close to 2k and park it for a CRF volley and still punch it when somebody notices and starts shooting at your stationary butt. IMO, if you're used to battle cruisers you'll like the inertia and turn, if you're used to beta MVAMs or a bug you'll be frustrated. She's still got a 1.0 shield mod and the highest hull of anything with escort in the name.

I've come to like this build for how flexible it can be, so bear with me as I insert XXX's into a few spots and explain how they shift around.

I.K.S. Pan T'sonhead

DHC x3 + DBB or Torp
Turret, Turret, KCB

KHG 3 piece
Eng: Always: Leech, Rotating: Borg, Temporal, Rom, <---> RCS, Neuts
Sci: Embassy FlwC +hull heal, Embassy Flwc +shield heal
Tac: 4x Weapon Flavor

Aux Batt, SFM, Shield batt or Weapons Batt

Eng:EPTE1, A2B

Tac:TT1, XXX, CRF2, APO3
Uni:PH1, HE2

Hangar: Shield repair shuttles (Do not underestimate these!) or Advanced Orion Interceptors

Always: 2 Tech (Yes, often I just run 2 purple. Longer abilities see no benefit from the 3rd while shorter abilities only take a few seconds longer to come back up compared to 3)
Rotating: 1 more Tech, 1 Battery cd, 1 TB drain, Maint eng battery bonus, TBR drain, EWP hold, Marion, good ole BFI doffs.

XXX EWP with doffs ends up being a nearly constant cloud. RSP is up once per minute. ET3 wasn't something I would have gone to initially, but DDIS runs it on his Vet ship and I've realized that sometimes it's exactly what you need. Pretty much the only thing that can't go here is Aux2Sif and Aux2ID.

Doffs: 3 Tech, Marion
This is the A2B version of the BO double tap which has been discussed recently. It doesn't get us to a triple tap, but nobody's perfect. In this case I do run 3 purple tech doffs because it's the difference between -6 and -9 seconds off of BO's cd per A2B activation. I've got 8 seconds after DEM activation to fire both, so those 3 seconds actually become pretty important.

3 DHC + Quantum
Not much to say about this, STO standard since rocks were soft.

3 DHC + Rom Torp or 4 DHC
This basically replicates an AP doff escort. You'll rotate APO/APD+PH. The reason I put the Rom torp there is because you can stick that sucker on autofire and it's kind of fine. If there's no spam clearing from the other side you can end up with multiple volleys of these things chasing your target, then when you TB and CRF they catch up all at once and you can pretend you planned it that way all along.

My dirty, dirty Klingun drain build:
Uni:PH1, TBR1
Hangar: Advanced Orion Interceptors (W/E drain + chrono torp)
Doffs: Tractor Beam Officer (-10 to engine power per pulse of TBR)
This is specifically for dealing with "real" escorts. When you see APO go up they won't be pushed away, which is good because they can potentially eat every pulse from TBR for a chance at an engine drain. For targets who aren't immune, TBR uses aux for the repel, so killing your aux is actually a good thing if you want your target to get hit with more pulses rather than be tossed to a range where your DHCs actually do less damage.

I really like this ship, but honestly I wouldn't run it without double A2B. You almost have to run a Tac lt and AP or cannon doffs, and there are other ships that can do that better, and without having to choose between PH and HE. IMO the key is making the most out of that LtC Eng slot.

I've dropped EPTA for EPTE, which is about to get even better with LoR. It's going to be a question of swapping in EPTW since that's getting buffed as well. So, um, yeah, in 2 weeks we have to rethink lots of stuff, but this is Still Life of a Jem HEC Season 7.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,272
# 43
05-07-2013, 11:48 AM
that ship looks like it was made with 2 AtB in mind. i mean really, without the tac skill uptime you get from it, you cant escort very well with just that commander tac. if you use the universal for tac, well your sci almost doesn't exist.

on battle cruisers i use ET3, on vet ships ive settled on EPtS3 and ET1. the ET1 and HE1 have hull heals well covered on these ships that can speed tank well. if you have an elite shield, with EPtS3 you can get to the shield res cap, and the shield repair drones will make you further invincible.

on my vet ship, and for this ship too, 2 or 3 turn consoles will make a huge difference. i know its a large console investment, and you may actually have to do without crit buffing consoles, but i find the turn rate you can get from that many turn consoles being a much more decisive factor then criting better. your not at much of a turn disadvantage with 3 turn consoles. EPtE does a world of difference too i find. and on tribble, EPtE will let almost any ship move around like a bug, it would be incredibly beneficial for use on ships like this and battle cruisers.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,795
# 44
05-07-2013, 03:36 PM
I recently put together an A2B build on my Fleet Excel, and I'm having some timing issues. In the interest of full disclosure, I don't PvP, rather this build is for a "DPS STF" build, but I figured since you were the experts on this mechanic you might lend some pointers anyway.

In the past, I would use a "Spam Keybind" (pressing F every 2-3 seconds) that had two copies of EPtS and EPtW (as well as Fire All Beams and Balance Shields) attached on it. This worked great to keep the EPtX abilities chaining and keep my Weapons and Shield power as high as possible. This was when I used my Excel mostly for tanking and pressure, which aren't needed so much in STFs anymore (and I got bored not killing anything by myself - Yeah, I know, fly an Escort... Sorry, for this character, I like my Cruiser. ).

Now I've got 2x AtB (w/3x Purple Techs), and 1x each EPtS and EPtW - And these are all on my F spam keybind. But it doesn't seem to be working right on the CD, especially with my other abilities I care to use (like FAW, ATB, and DEM, which I trigger separately, as needed, via a 2nd keybind).

Should I remove the AtB from the Spam Keybind and just trigger them manually as I need CD reduction? I've read this whole thread, and keybinds aren't mentioned much, so I'm wondering if that's how you guys do it? Here's my basic build info:

8x Beam Boat (Romulan Plasmas and a Cutting Beam)

EPtS1, A2B1, RSP2, DEM3
EPtW1, A2B1


Assim Modual, Zero Point, Neutronium, Electroceramic
All Embassy Shield Emitters w/Pla and -Th tags
All Plasma Infusers

Goal would be to keep the EPtS and EPtW chaining, while having the FAW, APB, and DEM available as often as possible. I'm not sure why I have the EPtA in there, honestly. I thought it might help get Aux back if needed, but it's never available, I'm considering changing it to an ET1 or ???). Any advise on timing would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

ETA: This build is now working wonderfully. See post 53 for details.

You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Original Join Date: Feb 2010.
Need Help with Ship's Power? Check out my Ship Power Guide and Calculator.

Last edited by lordhavelock; 06-06-2013 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Give update on build status.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,272
# 45
05-07-2013, 04:07 PM
i mainly just cycle them. but i do pay attention to non cycle skill cooldowns, all hold off on my shield redistribute/cycle skill bind and let some other stuff cooldown and then get activated again before i resume hitting the cycle bind over and over. instead of the 3rd EPt skill i would use ET1. that every 15 seconds is nice to have, especially in an stf

the 2 AtB build is mostly auto piolet, but paying some attention is still needed
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 46
05-07-2013, 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by lordhavelock View Post
In the past, I would use a "Spam Keybind" (pressing F every 2-3 seconds) that had two copies of EPtS and EPtW (as well as Fire All Beams and Balance Shields) attached on it. This worked great to keep the EPtX abilities chaining and keep my Weapons and Shield power as high as possible.
I'm honestly at a loss as to why this wouldn't work. When I dusted off some toons for the CC event I had A2B, EPTX, FAW, and more on the same row bound to 1 button and it worked fine. If anything I'd try putting the fire all beams and redistribute shields on a separate bind. Maybe that's stepping on the toes of the abilities?
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 47
05-24-2013, 01:56 PM
In my original post I kind of glossed over the actual power gains from A2B. The changes with LoR made me take a closer look, so here's some info, better late than never.

So my methods for figuring this out involved a few respecs on Tribble and tooltip info. I double checked that the Qonos local space is the same as actual combat space. I made myself a spreadsheet with what I think is a formula that makes sense, so if anybody wants to double check me please feel free.

First, the EPS skill. A2B has a magic component built in that defies the law of conservation of energy based on your EPS skill. At zero EPS skill activating A2B1 will divide your current Aux level (minus 5, because it leaves 5 in the tank) by 3 and adds it to W/S/E.

Activating A2B2 (the LtC. version) seems to multiply your Aux level minus 5 by something like 1.13 before it divides by 3. This is a magic number that creates power out of nowhere.

If you have points in your EPS skill then A2B multiplies Aux minus 5 by another number prior to dividing by 3. This is another magic number that creates power out of nowhere.

So roughly: ((Aux-5)*(EPS skill * EPS modifier))/3 = bonus per subsystem.

The EPS modifier, as near as I can tell, is .24% for A2B1 and .28% for A2B2. Somebody who is better at this would probably come up with a tighter number, but my .24% included ranges between .239% and .247%. Close enough for me, since I'm really going to be talking about the likely spec options.

EPS with "6 points," meaning green and yellow, is going to give you 84 for EPS skill. With a resting Aux level of 45, A2B1 is going to grab 40 of it, multiply it by about 1.2 to get 48. Congratulations, we just made 8 power out of nothing. Now what those "6 points" really got you per subsystem is 8/3, or like 2.6 to each W/S/E.

EPS A2B1 A2B2 notes
40 110% 124% 0 skill, Warp Theorist, Rom 2pc, [EPS]WC
109 127% 144% 99 skill, Warp Theorist
148 137% 155% 99 skill, Warp Theorist, Rom 2pc, [EPS]WC, KHG deflector

You could get to I think 178 by running the KHG deflector and the breen engine and shield. But you know better.

The percentage is what you're going to multiply your current Aux level by. So A2B1 with 148 EPS, hit an Aux batt to ping 125, it's going to return almost 55 to each W/S/E.

Again, please check my maths on this. All of these numbers come with an "-ish" on the end because I have to take my shoes off to count past 10.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 48
05-24-2013, 02:00 PM
So, Warp Cores.

They give a bonus to one of S/E/A. The warp core will raise the cap on one system to 130. This is great if we could use it on weapons, but we can't. The other side of this bonus is that it provides a scaling bonus that is bigger at lower power levels. So you can run high power and take advantage of the cap increase, or run low power and get a bonus to what's in the tank. At a setting of 15 the bonus seems to be 6.

They also have a [Mod]. The wiki page has details. For our purposes it really comes down to 2: EPS or Batt. Blue WC's give +15 EPS, I think I saw a Purple Mk XI that was +16.2, but don't quote me.

The battery bonus is actually pretty easy to remember. The +15 to batteries translates to 1.5s on the battery duration. Maxing the skill gives you 19.9 seconds, so you can take it to 21.4. That's like soooo close to being useful for a double A2B build. Why? Because triggering an Aux battery then using the power for A2B will retain the bonus power levels to W/S/E even after the battery wears off. Sure you get an Aux offline, but if you haven't figured out how to survive without Aux for 10 seconds you should probably just grind your Tech doffs. 21.4 seconds is almost enough to let a single Aux battery be active for 3 A2B cycles. This means that right before you trigger A2B for a high aux/low bonus cycle you could pop a battery for high aux/high bonus, followed by a low aux/high bonus, and almost make it for another high aux/high bonus. This really doesn't quite work out though due to the activation times on the powers. If we had another 1.5 seconds we might pull it off. Of course we're guaranteeing an Aux offline, and that's not everybody's cup of tea.

So, IMO it's [EPS] for mods.

I'm not saying one way or another to run a Field/Hyper/Overcharged or whether to take advantage of the cap or efficiency bonus. The WC is too new and that's pretty subjective.

But, I'll throw this out there:

Overcharged WC Mk X [EPS] W->A ~16 aux @15 setting
KHG Mk XII 2 piece +Engine ~12 aux @15 setting
Jem HEC +5 aux
9 in Efficiency, WC potential, Aux Performance, Weapons Performance

Aux is 71/15. With 148 in EPS that's 32ish to W/S/E on the first activation of A2B1. S/E presets can be balanced at 45/40.

The alternative is A->W. Low aux/high bonus cycles give the standard bonus, but high aux/low bonus cycles still add something.

Purple warp cores have an additional feature, the XCap where X is W/S/E/A. It's battery-lite. It's tempting to take ACap for a little extra in the tank or help fixing an Aux offline, but at this point I hardly notice Aux offline. If you're not running the KHG engines with Hot Restart I'd just run ECap since movement is life, but YMMV.
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 522
# 49
05-25-2013, 11:58 AM
I've been trying a limited aux2bat setup (1x with 3x techs) on the new destroyer with limited results. Reminds me just how poor some science abilities have become, LT Comm science BO slot rotates between Energy Syphon, VM and Feedback Pulse. Any 1 minute or longer power resets to global but you just don't have the powers to really pump up the dps even though the maneuvering is surprisingly pretty good.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,800
# 50
06-05-2013, 10:39 AM
Gary Busey celabrity rehab crash????
Does this mean I may end up snorting Aux off the back of a dog?
Originally Posted by staq16 View Post
The Federation may have all the superficial attention - but the game engine has a Klingon heart that lives only for battle.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 06-05-2013 at 10:52 AM.

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