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# 11
05-07-2013, 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
I wouldn't say 'raised to hate', (as the empress eventually forgave Siri, making her the ambassador to the Fedration) but she certainly came to hate her. I suspect V'sh'K'rr is a traditionalist and dislikes the influence of the Federation on what will be her subjects, hence her aims to 'accelerate her inheritance' of the throne.
I hope she will not succeed in those aims...

Speaking of bad encounters Alyosha could have...I would hate to see him and Ch'K'rr come together in knowledge of what he is. Alyosha would feel terrible and guilty to know what had happened to her mother and the grief she went through--but I can only imagine how furious Ch'K'rr would be, encountering a d'v'ash't'ya living in humanoid society as a "normal" person (as much as he can).

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I wanted to reinforce that they could literally strike anywhere at any time, and that nowhere on the planet was truly 'safe', some places were simply more prone to incursion than others...
That would be a terrible way to have to live.

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I rather wondered if he might have been seeking to capture some for study, and had hoped that Alyosha would have able to do so 'accidentally'...
It would've been a heck of a guess, since so little was known about Devidian culture, and he couldn't be sure they'd react with such anger to seeing one of their species living as he does.

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V'sh'K'rr was if not trying to summon them on command, certainly trying to provoke a reaction from them (she's not exactly 'firing on all thrusters' )
Yeah, I'd call that insane, all right.

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Last edited by gulberat; 05-07-2013 at 01:29 AM.
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# 12
05-07-2013, 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
I hope she will not succeed in those aims... :-(
I don't think she will be

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Speaking of bad encounters Alyosha could have...I would hate to see him and Ch'K'rr come together in knowledge of what he is. Alyosha would feel terrible and guilty to know what had happened to her mother and the grief she went through--but I can only imagine how furious Ch'K'rr would be, encountering a d'v'ash't'ya living in humanoid society as a "normal" person (as much as he can).
Actually, an idea I had, was if Ch'K'rr was to invite Alyosha to the planet knowing precisely what he was, so he could serve as, not a representative of the d'v'ash't'ya, but an example of Federation tolerance, and why it is in the Dynasty's interests to embrace closer relations to the Federation... That's why I wondered how well he would cope with the brightness of the suns light Being more tolerant in her attitudes than say I'sH'd (who would still be able to accept Alyosha as safe) I don't think she actually would harbor any ill will towards Alyosha for the death of her mother, nor hold him responsible for the acts of beings who simply share his biology. Afterall, it would not be the same as Kirk holding a grudge against all Klingons for the death of his son, as the incursions had already been occurring for millenia, with the d'v'ash't'ya having a well-established cultural presence in the collective Pentaxian psyche...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
That would be a terrible way to have to live.
Indeed. That's why I'sHd's, or most any other Pentaxians instinctive reaction to seeing a d'v'ash't'ya would be to attack...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
It would've been a heck of a guess, since so little was known about Devidian culture, and he couldn't be sure they'd react with such anger to seeing one of their species living as he does.
That's what makes me wonder if Drake was simply using Alyosha as the bait for the trap, not anticipating such a violent reaction, and genuinely thought that some kind of containment would have been possible, to get him something he could study to weaponize.

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Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Yeah, I'd call that insane, all right. ;-)
Pentaxian geneticists may have perfected the techniques for accelerated critical neural pathway formation therapy, but that's not to say that there aren't still behavioral side effects
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# 13
05-07-2013, 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
I don't think she will be
Good...because I suspect that would be most unfortunate for Pentaxia if that were to occur.

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Actually, an idea I had, was if Ch'K'rr was to invite Alyosha to the planet knowing precisely what he was, so he could serve as, not a representative of the d'v'ash't'ya, but an example of Federation tolerance, and why it is in the Dynasty's interests to embrace closer relations to the Federation... That's why I wondered how well he would cope with the brightness of the suns light
Alyosha's species isn't public knowledge, and is in fact classified so that aside from Thraz and Sei, only certain high-ranking officers are aware of it. (And of course those involved in the mess-hall incident.) I'm curious...when would this have happened? Would it have been during a time when Alyosha was still a courier for Starfleet Intelligence, or perhaps serving on the Endeavour as a junior science officer? I'm not sure I see this happening during Alyosha's captaincy (especially with Admiral Kane gone).

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Being more tolerant in her attitudes than say I'sH'd (who would still be able to accept Alyosha as safe) I don't think she actually would harbor any ill will towards Alyosha for the death of her mother, nor hold him responsible for the acts of beings who simply share his biology. Afterall, it would not be the same as Kirk holding a grudge against all Klingons for the death of his son, as the incursions had already been occurring for millenia, with the d'v'ash't'ya having a well-established cultural presence in the collective Pentaxian psyche...
I admit I am a bit surprised she would be that generous to him in that regard, because I was not sure what Pentaxian honor would've demanded upon encountering a d'v'ash't'ya who was not attacking--if his life would be demanded as payment for those who had been taken. I wondered if she might not be honor-bound to kill him, especially since she had suffered such a personal loss to his species.

He'd still be ashamed of their actions, though, if he found out what had happened, and would likely say something to that effect. :-/

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That's what makes me wonder if Drake was simply using Alyosha as the bait for the trap, not anticipating such a violent reaction, and genuinely thought that some kind of containment would have been possible, to get him something he could study to weaponize.
That's certainly a possibility. I wonder why, though, if he wanted to study a Devidian, he didn't attempt to abduct Alyosha himself, since he would know that Alyosha refuses to feed off of people? That would seem to be "safer," but do you think Drake steers clear of those known to be under Kane's protection? Of course, after Kane is gone, by then Alyosha is so high-ranking that it would cause HUGE problems to kidnap him. Taking a starship captain would get a lot of attention. (Getting on the ship with Thraz, who is a much more powerful telepath than Alyosha, could also be a problem. Do it in St. Petersburg, and there's hell to pay from the Azarovs and everyone else who is still there who had a hand in his upbringing.)

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# 14
05-08-2013, 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Good...because I suspect that would be most unfortunate for Pentaxia if that were to occur.
Indeed, sociological steps are being taken, which a return to isolationism would be backsliding from, although ultimately, V'sh'K'rr will inherit the throne eventually...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Alyosha's species isn't public knowledge, and is in fact classified so that aside from Thraz and Sei, only certain high-ranking officers are aware of it. (And of course those involved in the mess-hall incident.) I'm curious...when would this have happened? Would it have been during a time when Alyosha was still a courier for Starfleet Intelligence, or perhaps serving on the Endeavour as a junior science officer? I'm not sure I see this happening during Alyosha's captaincy (especially with Admiral Kane gone).
Indeed, I don't think it is an event which has occurred, as neither S'rR's or I'sH'd know he is Devidian, (and the Endeavour's only visit to Pentaxia was for Ch'K'rr's coronation in 2387 [although Alyosha may indeed have been on board as a junior science officer]) so possibly one in Alyosha's future where he may either be more able to openly reveal his nature, but I figured it might have made for an interesting diplomatic mission for him

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
I admit I am a bit surprised she would be that generous to him in that regard, because I was not sure what Pentaxian honor would've demanded upon encountering a d'v'ash't'ya who was not attacking--if his life would be demanded as payment for those who had been taken. I wondered if she might not be honor-bound to kill him, especially since she had suffered such a personal loss to his species.

He'd still be ashamed of their actions, though, if he found out what had happened, and would likely say something to that effect. :-/
A Pentaxian wouldn't be honor-bound to attack a d'v'ash't'ya on sight, but they probably would do so, knowing that to do otherwise, would be fatal (and even fighting is no guarantee) That's why I said that if I'sH'd knew Alyosha was Devidian and recognized him shifted, he would not attack, but if he was to randomly encounter him in true form, he would. Mercurial as she may be, Ch'Krr's not one to transfer blame onto others. The fact she was able to forgive Siri, and make her the ambassador to the Federation, rather than taking the grudge to the grave, is a sign that her tutors were able to instill the virtue of forgiveness in her

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
That's certainly a possibility. I wonder why, though, if he wanted to study a Devidian, he didn't attempt to abduct Alyosha himself, since he would know that Alyosha refuses to feed off of people? That would seem to be "safer," but do you think Drake steers clear of those known to be under Kane's protection? Of course, after Kane is gone, by then Alyosha is so high-ranking that it would cause HUGE problems to kidnap him. Taking a starship captain would get a lot of attention. (Getting on the ship with Thraz, who is a much more powerful telepath than Alyosha, could also be a problem. Do it in St. Petersburg, and there's hell to pay from the Azarovs and everyone else who is still there who had a hand in his upbringing.)
You've hit the nail on the head The safety offered by grabbing Alyosha compared to another Devidian, would be seriously outweighed by the other hassles it would cause and lead to. Equally, this is why Drake never went after Siri in the past. Devidians may hold the answer to a phasing cloak. To be fair, kidnapping an ambassador is equally fraught with hassles
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# 15
05-08-2013, 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
Indeed, sociological steps are being taken, which a return to isolationism would be backsliding from, although ultimately, V'sh'K'rr will inherit the throne eventually...
I suppose that depends on whether the penalty for her treason allows her to live...

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Indeed, I don't think it is an event which has occurred, as neither S'rR's or I'sH'd know he is Devidian, (and the Endeavour's only visit to Pentaxia was for Ch'K'rr's coronation in 2387 [although Alyosha may indeed have been on board as a junior science officer]) so possibly one in Alyosha's future where he may either be more able to openly reveal his nature, but I figured it might have made for an interesting diplomatic mission for him
The question would be, would Ch'K'rr have been sworn to silence as to Alyosha's nature? And would I'sH'd have been the one guarding her during that visit? I would expect that a guard would be present at all times--and all the more so when a d'v'ash't'ya visits...even a nice d'v'ash't'ya. If it were someone other than I'sH'd, then perhaps that would explain him and Siri not knowing.

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You've hit the nail on the head The safety offered by grabbing Alyosha compared to another Devidian, would be seriously outweighed by the other hassles it would cause and lead to. Equally, this is why Drake never went after Siri in the past. Devidians may hold the answer to a phasing cloak. To be fair, kidnapping an ambassador is equally fraught with hassles
Funny...even Alyosha wondered on his mission to Gameptis--that if Devidians had starships, could they have phasing cloaks?

And let's hope those hassles get the best of Drake.

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# 16
05-09-2013, 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
I suppose that depends on whether the penalty for her treason allows her to live...
The penalty for treason is death. However, that would depend upon if she is discovered as the agent provocateur, or if she is able to act through middlemen like Drake, thus shifting all awareness to them

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
The question would be, would Ch'K'rr have been sworn to silence as to Alyosha's nature? And would I'sH'd have been the one guarding her during that visit? I would expect that a guard would be present at all times--and all the more so when a d'v'ash't'ya visits...even a nice d'v'ash't'ya. If it were someone other than I'sH'd, then perhaps that would explain him and Siri not knowing.
He would have been five at the time of the Endeavour's visit, so not really fit for guard duty Indeed, a monarch certainly could be entrusted to retain secrecy on something, but my impression of the event was that it would have been a public revelation (as far as the Pentaxian media is concerned) as a way of showing the need to move beyond old fears and prejudices, and to embrace a philosophy more in line with the Federations. Sure, Pentaxians have a totally legitimate reason to fear the d'v'ash't'ya, but I think Ch'K'rr would have been trying to use the most hard-hitting example as a lesson in thinking outside the box to encourage her subjects to think differently

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Funny...even Alyosha wondered on his mission to Gameptis--that if Devidians had starships, could they have phasing cloaks?

And let's hope those hassles get the best of Drake. ;-)
Personally speaking, I don't think the Devidians use starships in the same way that most species do. It would appear that they travel directly by portals, more like Iconians used to. That said, they might have 'nursery ships' which transport creches (assuming that the size of the portals is limited to person-sized) but I think they might be more like the Guild transports in Dune, which 'travel without moving'...

A device I am tempted to use in a story, but don't want to slide into non-canon fanfic, is that 'Drake' is Section 31's equivalent of a Vorta... He certainly seems to be in multiple places at once (could be explained by a personal holo screen) but it does make me wonder... If he was to be killed, if a 'new Drake' would simply take his place, like the Weyoun

Last edited by marcusdkane; 05-09-2013 at 03:59 AM.
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# 17
05-09-2013, 05:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
The penalty for treason is death. However, that would depend upon if she is discovered as the agent provocateur, or if she is able to act through middlemen like Drake, thus shifting all awareness to them


He would have been five at the time of the Endeavour's visit, so not really fit for guard duty Indeed, a monarch certainly could be entrusted to retain secrecy on something, but my impression of the event was that it would have been a public revelation (as far as the Pentaxian media is concerned) as a way of showing the need to move beyond old fears and prejudices, and to embrace a philosophy more in line with the Federations. Sure, Pentaxians have a totally legitimate reason to fear the d'v'ash't'ya, but I think Ch'K'rr would have been trying to use the most hard-hitting example as a lesson in thinking outside the box to encourage her subjects to think differently


Personally speaking, I don't think the Devidians use starships in the same way that most species do. It would appear that they travel directly by portals, more like Iconians used to. That said, they might have 'nursery ships' which transport creches (assuming that the size of the portals is limited to person-sized) but I think they might be more like the Guild transports in Dune, which 'travel without moving'...

A device I am tempted to use in a story, but don't want to slide into non-canon fanfic, is that 'Drake' is Section 31's equivalent of a Vorta... He certainly seems to be in multiple places at once (could be explained by a personal holo screen) but it does make me wonder... If he was to be killed, if a 'new Drake' would simply take his place, like the Weyoun
one speculation that might work, is if 'Frank Drake' is more of an office than a Man, like 007.

Another might be that "Frank Drake" is really a self-aware AI that uses some forbidden tech to make a 'body' for wherever he needs one. sort of using the consciousness-transfer tech from TOS (I forget the episode) to 'upload' a new "Frank Drake" as needed, and download experiences to the main hub.
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# 18
05-09-2013, 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
one speculation that might work, is if 'Frank Drake' is more of an office than a Man, like 007.

Another might be that "Frank Drake" is really a self-aware AI that uses some forbidden tech to make a 'body' for wherever he needs one. sort of using the consciousness-transfer tech from TOS (I forget the episode) to 'upload' a new "Frank Drake" as needed, and download experiences to the main hub.
That could certainly be a possibility, and is a concept I was planning on exploring via the relationship between the Valkyrie's AI's holographic avatars, and her interactions with Ensign Mitchell I think the issue with writing for an ongoing official character like Drake, is that all Cryptic needs to do is write a storyline which contradicts what a forum writer has posted, and it totally undercuts the writing. That's why I try and stay well clear of fanfiction, or writing anything for a character which could then be contradicted by a legitimate source. In past entries, I've only 'guest starred' characters who are likely to never be returned to by hard canon
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# 19
05-09-2013, 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
He would have been five at the time of the Endeavour's visit, so not really fit for guard duty Indeed, a monarch certainly could be entrusted to retain secrecy on something, but my impression of the event was that it would have been a public revelation (as far as the Pentaxian media is concerned) as a way of showing the need to move beyond old fears and prejudices, and to embrace a philosophy more in line with the Federations. Sure, Pentaxians have a totally legitimate reason to fear the d'v'ash't'ya, but I think Ch'K'rr would have been trying to use the most hard-hitting example as a lesson in thinking outside the box to encourage her subjects to think differently
I see...I had taken it to be a private thing, to demonstrate to Ch'K'rr why continuing relations with the Federation would be a good thing (and this in spite of the rough start she got off to with Marcus Kane when she was little).

I am really unsure of Alyosha being in such a public situation. I mean, by then he would be used to the attention that a high-ranking officer receives, but I am really just unsure how he'd take such an order from Starfleet Command if ordered to reveal himself publicly in that manner.

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Personally speaking, I don't think the Devidians use starships in the same way that most species do. It would appear that they travel directly by portals, more like Iconians used to. That said, they might have 'nursery ships' which transport creches (assuming that the size of the portals is limited to person-sized) but I think they might be more like the Guild transports in Dune, which 'travel without moving'...
Any of those things are quite possible. I doubt I will reveal anything, though, because the Devidians are SO unknown.

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A device I am tempted to use in a story, but don't want to slide into non-canon fanfic, is that 'Drake' is Section 31's equivalent of a Vorta... He certainly seems to be in multiple places at once (could be explained by a personal holo screen) but it does make me wonder... If he was to be killed, if a 'new Drake' would simply take his place, like the Weyoun
Hmm...interesting possibility!

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# 20
05-09-2013, 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
A device I am tempted to use in a story, but don't want to slide into non-canon fanfic, is that 'Drake' is Section 31's equivalent of a Vorta... He certainly seems to be in multiple places at once (could be explained by a personal holo screen) but it does make me wonder... If he was to be killed, if a 'new Drake' would simply take his place, like the Weyoun
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
one speculation that might work, is if 'Frank Drake' is more of an office than a Man, like 007.

Another might be that "Frank Drake" is really a self-aware AI that uses some forbidden tech to make a 'body' for wherever he needs one. sort of using the consciousness-transfer tech from TOS (I forget the episode) to 'upload' a new "Frank Drake" as needed, and download experiences to the main hub.
Spoiler alert, but, I'm going to be going somewhere with that idea down "The Road..."
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