Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 549
# 881
05-08-2013, 07:50 PM
I wish people wouldn't judge right off the bat how I would choose to use it or simply decide they know better. It's fine if you like it and I respect that. It's less fine to just look down on someone and state thier opinion as lacking.

I've seen no indication of what the ship is actually meant to be like. I'm not a mind reader - I don't get to assume correctly what a Dev is thinking when he comes up with a Boff layout. People seem to claim this is an escort - well, while I have some raider expectations from it because they said in one of thier blogs that the T'varo would suit the raider playstyle the closest i don't go with the foregone conclusion that this is going to be used mainly as an escort.

There's one type of ship in the game which are escorts, and in general they belong to the Federation, and have their own playstyle. I don't expect these to play like Federation ships. The singularity power and battle cloaks along say this much to me.

You want to talk Boff layouts, though? I'll oblige. When I look at the T'varo, here's what I picture:
Cmd Tac: Tactical Team 1, Cannon Rapid Fire 1, Beam Overload 3, Attack Pattern Omega 3
LtC Universal (Tac): Tactical Team 1, Torpedo High Yield 2, Torpedo High Yield 3
Ens Tac: (no idea)
Lt Eng: Emergency Power to Shields 1, Auxiliary to Structural Integrity 1
Lt Sci: Polarize Hull 1, Tractor Beam 2
Here, I'm picturing a spike damage build. Probably PvP oriented, with an armament like antiproton dual beams, dual heavy cannons, quantum torpedoes and turrets out back. Not something that's around to have a firefight so much as uncloak, claim the kill, and withdraw to rinse repeat. I have no clue what I'd want else for my Ens Tac since I already mostly covered my needs in the other two, and Torpedo High Yield 2 even feels a bit superficial so adding another High Yield 1 seems rather redundant and I don't have much use for a Beam Overload 1 - it's not like I'll make a second pass before circumstances (and cooldowns) favor me better.

So, I end up wishing that the Ensign Tac would be an Ensign Sci so I could have a little more of those going around. Maybe I'd keep Tractor Beam at 1 and pick another power like Hazard Emitters 2 for some HoT and extinguish any plasma fires.

Then... let's say I mostly go with the same idea of quick single kill (because I don't see this as a cannon escort), but switch the universal to engineering. I got for more stamina, ways to boost my weapon power to go well with beam overload and some help to ease any escapes.
Cmd Tac: Tactical Team 1, Torpedo High Yield 2, Beam Overload 3, Attack Pattern Omega 3
Ens Tac: Tactical Team 1
Lt Eng: Engineering Team, Auxiliary to Structural Integrity 1
LtC Universal (Eng): Emergency Power to Shields 1, Reverse Shield Polarity, Emergency Power to Weapon 3
Lt Sci: Polarize Hull 1, Tractor Beam 2
Or, perhaps, I instead go sciency.
Cmd Tac: Tactical Team 1, Torpedo High Yield 2, Beam Overload 3, Attack Pattern Omega 3
Ens Tac: Tactical Team 1
Lt Eng: Emergency Power to Shields 1, Auxiliary to Structural Integrity 1
Lt Sci: Polarize Hull 1, Hazard Emitters 2
LtC Universal (Sci): Tractor Beam 1, Jam Sensors 2, Photonic Shockwave 1
I do end up with a nice bag of tricks but the Ens Tac still has the least presence. If it had been an Ens Sci, I could've fit something like Transfer Shield Strength (which is, IMHO more useful than a second Tac Team).

I can even do another one. Let's say this time, I'm going a bit more DPSy, because I'm just against PvE content. I go back to making the universal station a tactical one, but put in power that take care of larger groups. Maybe even use this for STFs.
Cmd Tac: Beam Fire at Will 1, Cannon Scatter Volley 1, Cannon Scatter Volley 2, Attack Pattern Omega 3
LtC Universal (Tac): Beam Fire at Will 1, Torpedo Spread 2, Torpedo Spread 3
Ens Tac: Tactical Team 1
Lt Eng: Emergency Power to Shields 1, Auxiliary to Structural Integrity 1
Lt Sci: Polarize Hull 1, Hazard Emitters 2
Here, I'm kind of wishing I could've managed to fit Transfer Shield Strength in my science powers, since I'd likely be cloaked significantly less while trying to do a DPS role. I even managed to pair most of my weapon powers, though if I had one less ensign power I'd probably ditch one BFaW in favor of TT1 for the Borg Boarding Party debuff.

* * *

So, overall, this is kind of why I don't see that much usefulness from the Ens Tac station. Kind of like the Defiant and Armitage, it seems annoying to me. It's there, but it doesn't end end being all that well used. That's the beef I have against it.

Also, considering warbirds will be stealthier with higher aux power, it seems to build in a good synergy with science powers. Turning that station into an Ens Sci just seems to play well into the Romulan subterfuge/trickery/science bit better, which is also why I'm advocating it.

Right now isn't bad. Even I can sort of make it work (The LtC universal being turned to science surprised me in its appeal, even). But it doesn't feel ideal for a warbird, which is where I'm trying to come from. And perceptions of 4 DHC escorts didn't even compute in my head, even.

Last edited by umaeko; 05-08-2013 at 07:54 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,105
# 882
05-08-2013, 08:04 PM
Ok I was mistaken that you were basing your complaints off of trying a 4DHC build with it.
That just makes you more wrong about an ensign tac being useless then because if you are using torps its great, THY1 is very underestimated.

You can just bump THY2 down to 1 its about as good, if it hits unshielded hull it does about as good damage anyway then run another attack pattern, BO, or CRF. Try THY1 out and compare it to THY2 you will be suprised how useful it is and how much options you now have when you find it works just as good for spike. That ensign tac won't look so useless anymore.
Ensign
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 6
# 883
05-08-2013, 11:31 PM
Anyone have screens of the new mirror ships or there stats?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 147
# 884
05-09-2013, 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
sounds like your confusing how bad it is to have 3 eng ENS stations with how it is to have 3 tac ENS.

3 tac ENS is not bad, most ships want at least 2. you only cant use 3 tac ENS if you use a 4 DHC build. 2 ENS tacs can give you 2 TT1, for that distribute at the system cooldown, very handy. if you use torps, HY1 is a great skill, that has the most damage per torp of any HY. it crits super hard. BO1 is ok, especially if you have a higher grade BO as well, so you can use it every 15 seconds.

escorts are always gonna want 2 TTs, 2 CFRs, and 2 HY/BO, with at least 1 APO. 3 tac ens can help you do this, your going to be missing one of these somewhere with out that 3rd ENS. even the defiant is fine, you get 2 APOs, with it no prob, wile getting 2 or everything else

there is nothing about the tvaro getting a COM and ENS tac to complain about.
Except that the PVE crowd generally uses 4 DHCs: 2xTT, 2xRF, 2xAP
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,596
# 885
05-09-2013, 01:56 AM
The torpedo launchers of the Mogai don't seem to fire straight ahead anymore but downwards at a 30? or so angle.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 239
# 886
05-09-2013, 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by umaeko View Post
I wish people wouldn't judge right off the bat how I would choose to use it or simply decide they know better. It's fine if you like it and I respect that. It's less fine to just look down on someone and state thier opinion as lacking.

I've seen no indication of what the ship is actually meant to be like. I'm not a mind reader - I don't get to assume correctly what a Dev is thinking when he comes up with a Boff layout. People seem to claim this is an escort - well, while I have some raider expectations from it because they said in one of thier blogs that the T'varo would suit the raider playstyle the closest i don't go with the foregone conclusion that this is going to be used mainly as an escort.

There's one type of ship in the game which are escorts, and in general they belong to the Federation, and have their own playstyle. I don't expect these to play like Federation ships. The singularity power and battle cloaks along say this much to me.

You want to talk Boff layouts, though? I'll oblige. When I look at the T'varo, here's what I picture:
Cmd Tac: Tactical Team 1, Cannon Rapid Fire 1, Beam Overload 3, Attack Pattern Omega 3
LtC Universal (Tac): Tactical Team 1, Torpedo High Yield 2, Torpedo High Yield 3
Ens Tac: (no idea)
Lt Eng: Emergency Power to Shields 1, Auxiliary to Structural Integrity 1
Lt Sci: Polarize Hull 1, Tractor Beam 2
Here, I'm picturing a spike damage build. Probably PvP oriented, with an armament like antiproton dual beams, dual heavy cannons, quantum torpedoes and turrets out back. Not something that's around to have a firefight so much as uncloak, claim the kill, and withdraw to rinse repeat. I have no clue what I'd want else for my Ens Tac since I already mostly covered my needs in the other two, and Torpedo High Yield 2 even feels a bit superficial so adding another High Yield 1 seems rather redundant and I don't have much use for a Beam Overload 1 - it's not like I'll make a second pass before circumstances (and cooldowns) favor me better.

So, I end up wishing that the Ensign Tac would be an Ensign Sci so I could have a little more of those going around. Maybe I'd keep Tractor Beam at 1 and pick another power like Hazard Emitters 2 for some HoT and extinguish any plasma fires.

Then... let's say I mostly go with the same idea of quick single kill (because I don't see this as a cannon escort), but switch the universal to engineering. I got for more stamina, ways to boost my weapon power to go well with beam overload and some help to ease any escapes.
Cmd Tac: Tactical Team 1, Torpedo High Yield 2, Beam Overload 3, Attack Pattern Omega 3
Ens Tac: Tactical Team 1
Lt Eng: Engineering Team, Auxiliary to Structural Integrity 1
LtC Universal (Eng): Emergency Power to Shields 1, Reverse Shield Polarity, Emergency Power to Weapon 3
Lt Sci: Polarize Hull 1, Tractor Beam 2
Or, perhaps, I instead go sciency.
Cmd Tac: Tactical Team 1, Torpedo High Yield 2, Beam Overload 3, Attack Pattern Omega 3
Ens Tac: Tactical Team 1
Lt Eng: Emergency Power to Shields 1, Auxiliary to Structural Integrity 1
Lt Sci: Polarize Hull 1, Hazard Emitters 2
LtC Universal (Sci): Tractor Beam 1, Jam Sensors 2, Photonic Shockwave 1
I do end up with a nice bag of tricks but the Ens Tac still has the least presence. If it had been an Ens Sci, I could've fit something like Transfer Shield Strength (which is, IMHO more useful than a second Tac Team).

I can even do another one. Let's say this time, I'm going a bit more DPSy, because I'm just against PvE content. I go back to making the universal station a tactical one, but put in power that take care of larger groups. Maybe even use this for STFs.
Cmd Tac: Beam Fire at Will 1, Cannon Scatter Volley 1, Cannon Scatter Volley 2, Attack Pattern Omega 3
LtC Universal (Tac): Beam Fire at Will 1, Torpedo Spread 2, Torpedo Spread 3
Ens Tac: Tactical Team 1
Lt Eng: Emergency Power to Shields 1, Auxiliary to Structural Integrity 1
Lt Sci: Polarize Hull 1, Hazard Emitters 2
Here, I'm kind of wishing I could've managed to fit Transfer Shield Strength in my science powers, since I'd likely be cloaked significantly less while trying to do a DPS role. I even managed to pair most of my weapon powers, though if I had one less ensign power I'd probably ditch one BFaW in favor of TT1 for the Borg Boarding Party debuff.

* * *

So, overall, this is kind of why I don't see that much usefulness from the Ens Tac station. Kind of like the Defiant and Armitage, it seems annoying to me. It's there, but it doesn't end end being all that well used. That's the beef I have against it.

Also, considering warbirds will be stealthier with higher aux power, it seems to build in a good synergy with science powers. Turning that station into an Ens Sci just seems to play well into the Romulan subterfuge/trickery/science bit better, which is also why I'm advocating it.

Right now isn't bad. Even I can sort of make it work (The LtC universal being turned to science surprised me in its appeal, even). But it doesn't feel ideal for a warbird, which is where I'm trying to come from. And perceptions of 4 DHC escorts didn't even compute in my head, even.
Yeah, the Tvaro looks great to me in its current rendition. Bear in mind if you go as a BOP style alpha striker, you NEED BO/HY. I'm not sure crf is necessary. You always need 2 TTs. It certainly helps but with only 2 dhc I would be tempted give that up for the ability to drop a LCDR sci power in my alpha. This is also a setup I cannot do in a BOP which helps distinguish the two ships a bit. BOPs have full universals but lose the ensign boff completely in exchange. I have to fully support the new boff setup. If you want the traditional raider as we know it right now, play KDF.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,795
# 887
05-09-2013, 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by umaeko View Post
I wish people wouldn't judge right off the bat how I would choose to use it or simply decide they know better. It's fine if you like it and I respect that. It's less fine to just look down on someone and state thier opinion as lacking.

I've seen no indication of what the ship is actually meant to be like. I'm not a mind reader - I don't get to assume correctly what a Dev is thinking when he comes up with a Boff layout. People seem to claim this is an escort - well, while I have some raider expectations from it because they said in one of thier blogs that the T'varo would suit the raider playstyle the closest i don't go with the foregone conclusion that this is going to be used mainly as an escort.

There's one type of ship in the game which are escorts, and in general they belong to the Federation, and have their own playstyle. I don't expect these to play like Federation ships. The singularity power and battle cloaks along say this much to me.

You want to talk Boff layouts, though? I'll oblige. When I look at the T'varo, here's what I picture:
Cmd Tac: Tactical Team 1, Cannon Rapid Fire 1, Beam Overload 3, Attack Pattern Omega 3
LtC Universal (Tac): Tactical Team 1, Torpedo High Yield 2, Torpedo High Yield 3
Ens Tac: (no idea)
Lt Eng: Emergency Power to Shields 1, Auxiliary to Structural Integrity 1
Lt Sci: Polarize Hull 1, Tractor Beam 2
Here, I'm picturing a spike damage build. Probably PvP oriented, with an armament like antiproton dual beams, dual heavy cannons, quantum torpedoes and turrets out back. Not something that's around to have a firefight so much as uncloak, claim the kill, and withdraw to rinse repeat. I have no clue what I'd want else for my Ens Tac since I already mostly covered my needs in the other two, and Torpedo High Yield 2 even feels a bit superficial so adding another High Yield 1 seems rather redundant and I don't have much use for a Beam Overload 1 - it's not like I'll make a second pass before circumstances (and cooldowns) favor me better.
I'd recommend BO 1 for that ensign in here.

And btw, while I've said that I'm fine with the Ens Tac as a balance move, I now see it's probably more useful than if you made it Sci, or Eng. Then you'd be basically forced to use the universal Lt. Comm. for Tac to make the T'Varo work. It would make you (well, many, possibly not you) use it like so many other bland escorts/raptors in game.

This layout at least pushes for some creativity. (And honestly those layouts you made don't seem that bad.)
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia: Design that long overdue Tier 5 C-Store Raptor
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 611
# 888
05-09-2013, 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by assimilatedktar View Post
The torpedo launchers of the Mogai don't seem to fire straight ahead anymore but downwards at a 30? or so angle.
They always did that (for me at least)
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 802
# 889
05-09-2013, 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by assimilatedktar View Post
The torpedo launchers of the Mogai don't seem to fire straight ahead anymore but downwards at a 30? or so angle.
The torp launcher is in the pod between the wings under the hull. It always dropped the torps and then they where moving towards the target. Sorta like a cruise missile launcher on a b52.

-= ISE: 12:19 -=- CSE 12:41 -=- KASE 11:59 -=- HSe 8:06 total =-
-= KAGE 5:43 =-
[7:07] [Combat (Self)] Your Dual Disruptor Banks - Overload II deals 123086 (41096) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,596
# 890
05-09-2013, 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raptor63549 View Post
They always did that (for me at least)
Hm, I can't remember that from my first playthrough before the wipe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostusthorn View Post
The torp launcher is in the pod between the wings under the hull. It always dropped the torps and then they where moving towards the target. Sorta like a cruise missile launcher on a b52.
There are two pairs of forward-facing torpedo launchers on the lower wings, so no need to drop anything. Also it isn't the first time they do that. A lot of the Klingon ships were, for half an eternity, plagued with aft torpedoes that jumped upwards out of the launcher.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:59 AM.