Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,850
# 11
05-11-2013, 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by karl2025 View Post
But City of Heroes came out years before City of Villians. And you have to be Fed to get to the KDF. Doesn't that massively skew the numbers?
Yeah. It's a long standing criticism of Cryptic's commentary about the low numbers of the KDF.

Some game companies CAN develop multiple factions in a seamless, logical manner. Cryptic's just not one of those companies. What they offer I guess is a bit better than monster play, but it's definitely been a sticking point with the players for years.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 975
# 12
05-11-2013, 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanokskyrat View Post
Gecko and a few of the other talk about this in like every interview at the moment. Tal Shair are not bad, not evil THERE VERY VERY VERY BAD AND EVIL!

it comes down too that most people don't want to play VERY EVIL and BAD toons, I know you want too, but i mean in general, and the numbers prove this, (they talk about the numbers in City of Hero's vs. City of Villains, and KDF vs. Fed etc.)

Also the other reason is the story. They want the Tal Shair to be the bad guys... they're working with the Iconians and there up too a lot of bad stuff.
Wait until your do the Elachi mission arc of the Romulans. You'll have a deeper understanding of how evil the Tal Shiar and the Elachi really are. When I found out myself, I was disappointed that I could not do MORE masty things to the Elachi.

I won't give out any spoilers, but I love the how some TNG and Enterprise cannon and the resulting extrapolation about them. Now I'm really anxious to lean more about the Iconians
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 148
# 13
05-11-2013, 11:09 AM
I agree with lordfuzun about the elachi and think that what you do is not enough.

I do agree with some people's comments on the forums the Romulan Republic does not feel like the romulans from the series but more like the federation with out the prime directive, although I agree abiut the Tal Shiar being "evil incarnate" I got that feeling about them from TNG.
Ensign
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2
# 14
05-11-2013, 11:23 AM
I too wondered about the joining of the Tal'Shair at the begining. But now that I played deeper into the storyline i am glad the dev dont let you choose. I like having the Tal'Shair as the main badguy makes things interesting. I come to find myself rooting for the Romulan Republic more and more.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 258
# 15
05-11-2013, 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
For the horde!
WoW is ridiculously grey and grey for morality, though. Both factions are guilty of some pretty heinous war crimes, harboring terrorists, etc., but they both have their share of heroic acts and qualities as well.

It's tougher in STO, because a lot of people are stuck in the mindset that most of the series pushed, that Klingons are either the bad guys or unpredictable and dangerous allies, at best. The Path to 2409 and the in-game storylines do a pretty good job of posing the same grey and grey style choice that WoW gives, but it's tough to break past those preconceptions that fans of the IP have coming in. WoW had an advantage there, too, in that established fans of the IP had the opportunity to get used to the Horde being at least equally good in WC3 and TFT.
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Joined January 2010.

In regard to hating Star Trek 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by kain9prime View Post
IDIC fail.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 127
# 16
05-11-2013, 12:15 PM
MMO RPG. Role Playing Game. I've always wondered about the moral fibre of people who choose to play as the brutal murdering psychopaths.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 700
# 17
05-11-2013, 12:47 PM
Even within the romulan storyline there are moral choices to be made, some of them rather unsavory like convincing one person to see your point of view instead of just killing them honorably..
The thing is, is as mentioned earlier in the thread, even with all the intrigues that occur in the romulan story, they arent romulan.. They remind me more of ma and pa kettle from down the road.. great people but, not romulan.. and having to join the kdf or federation?? Xenophobic romulans?? Never, although they WOULD develop political alliances that suited their needs at the moment.. History shows that races of people do not change even with time and circumstance.. Rather than becoming second class citizens to the feds or the klinks, the romulans would determine to rebuild and recreate themselves. From that point of view, the Tal Shiar are still very evil, but completely romulan..
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 400
# 18
05-11-2013, 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wufangchu View Post
Even within the romulan storyline there are moral choices to be made, some of them rather unsavory like convincing one person to see your point of view instead of just killing them honorably..
The thing is, is as mentioned earlier in the thread, even with all the intrigues that occur in the romulan story, they arent romulan.. They remind me more of ma and pa kettle from down the road.. great people but, not romulan.. and having to join the kdf or federation?? Xenophobic romulans?? Never, although they WOULD develop political alliances that suited their needs at the moment.. History shows that races of people do not change even with time and circumstance.. Rather than becoming second class citizens to the feds or the klinks, the romulans would determine to rebuild and recreate themselves. From that point of view, the Tal Shiar are still very evil, but completely romulan..
No, the Tal Shiar are still murdering psychopaths, even by Romulan standards. Because, y'know, the majority of the Romulan people are absolutely terrified of them, one way or another.
And the "History shows that races of people do not change even with time and circumstance" line is complete BS. If you were an actual study of history, you'd know that.
The Romulans of old were somewhat xenophobic, yes, but only because of their ingrained sense of self-superiority. Now, the vast majority of them are simply too tired of struggling and living in hardship to keep that up.
And this impression that the Romulans are becoming citizens or such of the Federation or the Klingon Empire is both ridiculous and misplaced. Even in the in-game missions you play, it's made abundantly clear you are allying with them, NOT joining them. You are receiving aide, exchanging technology and even personnel, but it's not a complete annexation. The game takes time to explain this.
Anyone saying otherwise is turning a blind eye to the proof in front of them simply so that they can keep whining about how the Romulan Republic isn't a "real faction" and they're not "real Romulans". And honestly, the litanies are becoming repetitive and tiresome to hear.
Formerly GT-01. Runnin' a small lite-RP casual fleet called "The Voyagers"! Message me in-game at either Salen@GT01 or Xavok@GT01 if yer interested.
Here's my neat Idea's Thread.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 24
# 19
05-11-2013, 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordfuzun View Post
Wait until your do the Elachi mission arc of the Romulans. You'll have a deeper understanding of how evil the Tal Shiar and the Elachi really are. When I found out myself, I was disappointed that I could not do MORE masty things to the Elachi.

I won't give out any spoilers, but I love the how some TNG and Enterprise cannon and the resulting extrapolation about them. Now I'm really anxious to lean more about the Iconians
Thats funny, because when I found out I wanted to join the Tal Shiar even more....
Ensign
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 7
# 20
05-11-2013, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanokskyrat View Post
Gecko and a few of the other talk about this in like every interview at the moment. Tal Shair are not bad, not evil THERE VERY VERY VERY BAD AND EVIL!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
No, the Tal Shiar are still murdering psychopaths, even by Romulan standards. Because, y'know, the majority of the Romulan people are absolutely terrified of them, one way or another.

...

Anyone saying otherwise is turning a blind eye to the proof in front of them simply so that they can keep whining about how the Romulan Republic isn't a "real faction" and they're not "real Romulans". And honestly, the litanies are becoming repetitive and tiresome to hear.

That applies to the Tal Shiar specifically. The problem, and why I think you see so much bad feeling on the forums amoung those who've been waiting a long time for playable Romulans is that the Tal Shiar =/= The Romulan Star Empire. The Tal Shiar are, infact, represented as directly in (internal) opposition to the military throughout the history of Romulans in Star Trek. The unnamed captains in The Balance of Terror and The Enterprise Incident aren't evil baby-eaters. They have honour, for one thing, and aren't overly inclined to the kind of criminal insanity the Tal Shiar seems to select for. Again in TNG there are numerous examples of non-Tal Shiar Romulans, almost all members of the military or a political body, that don't show that kind of mad cackling evil. Centurion Bochra (The Enemy), Suran and Donatra (Nemesis) who actively decide to prevent the genocide of Earth for no reason that it being wrong, the Romulan Captain (The Chase) who is one of the few non-Starfleet Officials to take a genuine interest in the Ancient Humanoid's message. Even Tomalak in The Enemy has at least part of his motive in caring for his men.

These individuals (and they're not the only examples) aren't raving Tal Shiar psychotics. They're also not happy bunny huggers. They are Romulans. When people, like me, who are fans of the species found out we were finally getting to play them, this is what we thought we were getting. And not without basis - look at STO's Klingons. They've got a fair shake, morally, in the plot (fair enough too) but they are still Klingons. They are still militaristic, violent, honour-bound and aggressive. They will, and do, fight a war over being asked to evidence a statement (a correct one, but that's hardly the point). It would've been entirely possible to allow for militaristic Romulans of the cut of The Enemy's captain, Donatra or even Tomalak as players in light of that, and that's what I, at least, expected. There's no problem with them opposing the Tal Shiar. That's what the Romulan Military spends a good chunk of it's time (subtly) doing.

Even if there were factions within the Republic, that would've sufficed. Donatrist military officers siding with Da'Tan's reunificationists against the common enemy of Sela and the Tal Shiar (and their Iconian backers). The enemy of my enemy, after all. But no. We are forced to play Romulans who think the past centuries of Romulan history was a mistake. That the Vulcans were right. That's......not Romulan, not as they were presented in Trek. And that, obviously, is what people were after. No-one said "I want to play Romulans, but specifically reunificationists.". They said "I want to play the Romulan Star Empire.". Hence the appointment's.
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