Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7
# 21
05-15-2013, 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by platewearingbird View Post
I'm more concerned about the fact this game pretty much forces you into a fleet if you want to progress.

If you don't jump into a fleet and acquiesce to what they want you to do and how often they want you on, you lose out on too much in the game. Your ship selection hits a wall, you're stuck with Mark XI weapons because they moved all Mark XIIs to fleets.

At least WoW figured this out and added raids you can do with picked-up groups so that you no longer MUST have a guild to do the endgame. Sure, some pug raids on there are dumbasses but the option's there when you don't want others to tell you what to do on pain of never being able to progress in the game.

I've been in WoW guilds, I'm tired of having to log on and do some **** someone else tells me to do with MY GAME every single day. I want to play when I'm ready to play, and I shouldn't be getting punished by not being in a fleet that's gonna tell me "No, you'll log on when WE tell you or we'll kick".
Mk XI, even whites and greens is good enough for almost any PvE content, except maybe Hive Elite. And ESTFs are basically raids, but easier and faster. And the fleet I've been in has never told me anything like that, the closest they've done is "Hey, I'm starting a ESTF run...anyone else want to come along?". And they do have a couple of scheduled events...the penalty for not being at one...is that you're not there, that's it.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,309
# 22
05-15-2013, 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by platewearingbird View Post
I'm more concerned about the fact this game pretty much forces you into a fleet if you want to progress.

If you don't jump into a fleet and acquiesce to what they want you to do and how often they want you on, you lose out on too much in the game. Your ship selection hits a wall, you're stuck with Mark XI weapons because they moved all Mark XIIs to fleets.
Yes, if you PvP then you're going to want a Fleet Ship with the extra Console and Hull, and all the MK XII Gear but the majority of STO players don't PvP and having all the Fleet/Rep/MK XII gear is all but meaningless.

I can do Elite STFs just as well in my free Patrol Escort with Jem Gear drops from the 2800 FE as I can in my Fleet Defiant with full MK XII STF/Rom Rep Gear. I bet there's not even 10 seconds difference in the time it takes to complete an STF between the two ships.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 265
# 23
05-15-2013, 10:22 AM
Is Cryptic aware that some of the project requirements are unreasonable?Hell yes!In fact,they did it on purpose.There is no way that the amount of dilithium needed for projects can be earned in a reasonable time,you have to spend money on Zen to get the dilithium needed.

How else do you think they can keep up the supply of hair products for BranFlakes.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,163
# 24
05-15-2013, 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
Yes, if you PvP then you're going to want a Fleet Ship with the extra Console and Hull, and all the MK XII Gear but the majority of STO players don't PvP and having all the Fleet/Rep/MK XII gear is all but meaningless.

I can do Elite STFs just as well in my free Patrol Escort with Jem Gear drops from the 2800 FE as I can in my Fleet Defiant with full MK XII STF/Rom Rep Gear. I bet there's not even 10 seconds difference in the time it takes to complete an STF between the two ships.
Honestly even in PvP having a good C-Store ship with a proper setup (which can easily include Rep gear instead of Fleet) can be just as or MORE effective than some Fleet ship and Weapons depending on what you are shooting for. (Ground is a different matter but... eh...)

But you are right that not that many PvP and what is more notable is of those that do only a small handful actually know what they are really doing whereas a good number do not know how to setup and either do not know how to USE or lack the skill required to USE their ship to its fullest. So if you are a talented tactician and helmsman you can still beat the vast majority of folks in PvP without an uber powerful ship.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
# 25
05-15-2013, 04:55 PM
While I don't know about the suggestion that larger fleets are blocking the possibility of making things easier for smaller fleets, I do have to agree with the OP about small fleets being penalized. When the details about starbases in Season 6 were released, it was promised that the system would not punish small fleets and that the system would scale to allow small fleets to keep up. Obviously by release date that possibility disappeared.

But some of you are saying that PWE created the starbase system to kill small fleets, and I don't think this is right. It doesn't cause any problems for STO to have small fleets or to allow them in the game, and if it means that people are having fun playing in them then that keeps people playing the game, which is good. So it's kind of silly to say that PWE wanted to get rid of something that was never a problem in the first place.

Ultimately the fleet system was designed to pull dilithium and EC out of the market, by allowing players to buy things that weren't tangible and could not be resold. And in this respect they have succeeded greatly. This has multiple benefits for PWE - not only does it prevent inflation in the game but it also gives people enough things to buy with dilithium that they think twice about selling it for Zen, which means they are more likely to pay real money for Zen.

The problem with scaling fleet projects based on fleet size is how you deal with inactive players. If a fleet wanted the discounts for being "small" then it would have to aggressively cut inactives from its rolls. That could get kind of ugly pretty quick. You don't want to give a fleet an incentive for getting rid of members. It would become a competition for people to stay in the fleet.

The only sensible way I can envision to give smaller fleets a hand would be to gradually reduce the project cost over time, so the longer the project takes to finish, the easier it becomes to complete. But in my mind there would have to be some sort of down side to this, such as having the project to take longer to complete once it is filled and on countdown.

I doubt things will really change though, so you should really start recruiting.

However, one thing that is worth mentioning: if you can cultivate friends in another larger fleet who can invite you to visit their starbase, you can buy things from their vendors at their fleet's tier and the provisions are taken from your fleet's stockpile. This seems to work for everything except fleet ships (sadly). So start cultivating allies for your fleet and things will be easier for you.

Peet
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 631
# 26
05-15-2013, 06:13 PM
For me personally, the only thing I really want is Fleet Ships (in particular the Sovereign and Negh'var).

Elite Gear doesn't really impress me, I'm happy with Advanced gear.


And yes, I am trying to recruit, but I'm uncertain as to how successful that can be.
We're just one of a number of small fleets, who presumably are all trying to acquire members.

Also, the last time I tried actively recruiting in game, it got kindof ugly.
I used to go to ESD and advertise, but then other players started getting hostile.
The only reason I can surmise is they didn't like the competition for recruits, since they were doing exactly what I was doing!


One possibility I did consider is finding other small fleets who aren't as advanced as we are and asking them to amalagate with us.

But in general, most people don't like giving up their fleets.

So, I'm uncertain if that is a viable tactic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 219
# 27
05-15-2013, 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tilarta View Post
For me personally, the only thing I really want is Fleet Ships (in particular the Sovereign and Negh'var).

Elite Gear doesn't really impress me, I'm happy with Advanced gear.


And yes, I am trying to recruit, but I'm uncertain as to how successful that can be.
We're just one of a number of small fleets, who presumably are all trying to acquire members.

Also, the last time I tried actively recruiting in game, it got kindof ugly.
I used to go to ESD and advertise, but then other players started getting hostile.
The only reason I can surmise is they didn't like the competition for recruits, since they were doing exactly what I was doing!


One possibility I did consider is finding other small fleets who aren't as advanced as we are and asking them to amalagate with us.

But in general, most people don't like giving up their fleets.

So, I'm uncertain if that is a viable tactic.
advertising on ESD i generally consider as spam. it makes it really annoying when one person is trying to ask a question, and someone is spamming huge paragraphs of text all the time. i have never advertised in chat, and have ordered my fleet not to do so. i understand why some fleets do it, however i find the best advertising to be simply to be out there. when people see the fleet "timelords" alot, they get the idea my fleet is doing well. if they like the name, they might PM me, and ask to join, which i usually tell them how.

i too have thought about merging with another fleet. though have not asked any. our fleet is a nearly T4 in everything, only 15-20 active members. if another fleet such as your own would like to merge with us i'm sure something can be arranged.
however i find most people are too attached to their name to care about how much progress we might have put into our fleet. if they dont like the name, they arent joning, simple as that
Timelords Fleet
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 631
# 28
05-15-2013, 10:04 PM
Well, the basic issue I have is that I can't leave the fleet.
First of all, I have no alts, so I can't leave one in the fleet and migrate another to help another fleet.
And we are so hard up for resources that any alts I create will also be sent to the fleet, to ease the grind.

Secondly, if one of the 67 or so who went inactive should return, I don't want them to do so and discover our fleet is gone!

And thirdly, I have no ability to make my fleetmates leave either.
I'm not a Dictator, I can't order them to move.

And finally, it is a Tribute fleet, a memorial to the first true sci-fi mmo (Tabula Rasa) that was axed because the company who ran the servers just decided to be cruel.
No Fleet, no memorial!


And please don't take this wrong way, but I'm not keen on names like timelords and so on.

Basically, I see so many of what I call "nose on your face" names (from the expression, it's as obvious as the nose on your face), that it really annoys me to see them.

The definition of that term is a reference that anyone will get within seconds of looking at it.

The major example of this is that I keep seeing characters named Kirk, Jadzia, Sisko, Shepherd, etc in ships named Enterprise, Normandy and so on.

Nobody seems to go for the obscure references, the ones that take you a while to work out.

For example, I saw a character named Zaal'Koris in a ship named Quib-Quib.
See if you can work that one out without Google!

And for the record, my fleet name is Zero Wing.
I inspired the fleet to name it that because of my battle cry everytime we reclaimed one of our bases from the enemy in Tabula Rasa.
Also try to guess the reference without Google.
So yes, my Fleet name is a highly personal one, it means a lot to me, good memories and so on.

Last edited by tilarta; 05-15-2013 at 11:23 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,456
# 29
05-15-2013, 11:45 PM
I'd welcome if the fleets would be named "#th Fleet" and the custom name would be a nickname you'd see on closer inspection. Maybe this way I'd joined a small fleet at some point, but I still consider this game a somewhat Trek themed game (although it obviously tries hard not to be) and I'll never have my ship and crew join "Borg Killers", "The black ops special force", "Timelords" or whatever name they came up with. But if the 72th Fleet had "earned" the nickname "Timelords" for whatever reason I'd imagine it as a suffix on the fleet's badge and it wouldn't even be as bad.
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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 800
# 30
05-16-2013, 01:07 AM
cryptic released WAY too many systems needing Dilithium way too close to each other.

Before fleetbases came out how many times were we told that they would be scaled so large fleets would have a challenge, but small fleets wouldn't be penalized for their size....yeah that's what we get for drinking the kool-aid on that one.

Even if you completely ignore the Embassy and all of the limited time special projects the sheer resource cost builds so quickly that it's pretty much inevitable small fleets are going to stall. Sure they rescaled some of the EC costs, but really who was ever worried about that?

Unfortunately at this point if they scaled down the cost of the fleetbase projects it would start a flame war from the larger fleets like this forum/game has never seen, but something has to be done.

There really isn't a perfect solution to this, at least not one that would make everyone happy. Although maybe the solution is to diversify away from Excessive Dilithium requirements and increase the grind related resources. The more time people spend in the game, the more likely they are to buy something. I don't know I just wish they would do something.
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