Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Seriously Cryptic? Did you slip up in your research?
The Akira class is NOT a heavy escort, its a heavy cruiser!
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Akira_class

That aside does cryptic have any idea how absurd the Akira is right now?
Its by far the largest Tier 3 ship in the game, it dwarfs both the fed and klingon cruisers.
But nooo its an escort, that means that both its hull and shields are like tin foil by comparison and can barely take a pounding at all.

Honestly Cryptic, you should really have assigned the heavy cruiser space to the akira class, and the heavy escort to the Cheyenne class, the later being a very obscure and barely seen ship versus the former that is a very well known and distinct vessel.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-03-2010, 07:33 AM
don't get too attached to cryptic's terminology for ship classes, or even where it has assigned things. The whole notion of an 'escort' - or even the defiant class from DS9 doesn't make any sense in any sort of real world, at least not as implemented. An escort is just that, an escort, and exists to get blown up before the other ships in the fleet, these would be Frigates, destroyers and cruisers. The akira is a battlecruiser, which puts it firmly in the dps category (perhaps arguably one tier too low but whatever). A battlecruiser sacrifices armour for speed but otherwise is of similar size and loadout to a battleship.

The closest analogy for what they're trying to do with 'escorts' are carronade frigates, and those while intimidating where never a great combat ship. A bigger ship can inherently take more punishment, and dish out more. With all due apologies to admiral fisher, speed is not armour, even in the era of mechanical targeting; computer targeting and lightspeed weapons almost completely negate the concept, even 'fighters', say equivalent to aircraft in role would be risky against a computer targeting energy weapon.

Their 'escorts' are really battlecruisers, their 'cruisers' are really battleships from about tier 3 up, though you're probably right that the akira is out of it's place, it might make more sense swapped with the defiant class (on a purely cosmetic basis naturally).

Star trek cannon isn't particularly good at dealing with realistic ship classes and cryptic have muddled the matter further by using inappropriate and confusing terminology to describe them, but it's a systematic problem that extends well beyond the Akira. It's also entirely cosmetic, the important and difficult is mostly sorted out in balancing the different roles.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-03-2010, 07:47 AM
Only problem is that were dealing with starships, that means that todays naval principles apply the same way.
The Akira obviously has much greater mass, that alone should account for vastly improved hull strenght, not to mention it would be able to house a larger warp core as well as in all likelyhood be equipped with stronger shields.(c'mon, these things fought the borg for crying out loud)
Its also definatley not a ship to be carrying cannons, looks just wrong, and if one looks at the series and movies, only the smaller vessels actually carried phaser cannons of any sort like the Defiant etc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-03-2010, 07:54 AM
acourding to the creator of the akira the ship was designed to be the half-step between the galaxy and the sovereign.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-03-2010, 07:57 AM
At least it looks right. The Steamrunner got wrecked.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-03-2010, 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Only problem is that were dealing with starships, that means that todays naval principles apply the same way.
The Akira obviously has much greater mass, that alone should account for vastly improved hull strenght, not to mention it would be able to house a larger warp core as well as in all likelyhood be equipped with stronger shields.(c'mon, these things fought the borg for crying out loud)
Its also definatley not a ship to be carrying cannons, looks just wrong, and if one looks at the series and movies, only the smaller vessels actually carried phaser cannons of any sort like the Defiant etc.
If it helps, replace 'Escort' with 'Fast Battlecruiser' in your head.
Then go study some naval history, especially WWi (assuming you have not, already)

Perhaps the Akira is classed as an escort because that is how it functions (agile, fragile, shooty), but is physically large because it is in fact a large vessel that devotes its volume to sufficient warp core and secondary thrusters to be agile and sufficiently heavy/special mounts to mount cannon, rather than devoting the same volume to armor.

Or perhaps its just that the Akira was always a very 'shooty' ship, and 'shooty'='escort' in this game.

Or maybe they just decided they wanted to put a cool hull someplace people would use it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-03-2010, 08:03 AM
By this logic, the Defiant should've been a much larger ship considering the destructive power and resilience that it showed in the series. A ship as small as it was shouldn't have had the destructive power that it did and be able to take the beating that it could. Like someone said, Star Trek doesn't do the greatest job of sticking within the confines of what can be considered realistic. Here's one comment taken from one website regarding how well Trek follows realism.

"Defiants small size means less space for weapons, for shield generators, etc. Most of all it means less space for the warp core. Traditionally, warp cores are many decks tall - the Galaxy class warp core is twelve decks tall, the Sovereign warp core fourteen decks! Yet the Defiants warp core is only three or four decks, but is supposed to be more powerful than the Galaxy warp core. The galaxy class type 10 phaser arrays contain emitters some six metres across; Defiants pulse cannon are only about three or four metres on a side, yet four of these are supposed to put out a lot more power than the two hundred emitters which make up even one of the main arrays of the Galaxy."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-03-2010, 08:08 AM
The Defiant is a fluke when it comes down to it. Nothing in existing Star Trek technology would imply it quality. The only things that could even come close to an explination for it's success rate are:

It was "cutting edge" technology.

Its sucess had more to do with her crew than her technology.

Main character super powers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-03-2010, 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Seriously Cryptic? Did you slip up in your research?
The Akira class is NOT a heavy escort, its a heavy cruiser!
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Akira_class

That aside does cryptic have any idea how absurd the Akira is right now?
Its by far the largest Tier 3 ship in the game, it dwarfs both the fed and klingon cruisers.
But nooo its an escort, that means that both its hull and shields are like tin foil by comparison and can barely take a pounding at all.

Honestly Cryptic, you should really have assigned the heavy cruiser space to the akira class, and the heavy escort to the Cheyenne class, the later being a very obscure and barely seen ship versus the former that is a very well known and distinct vessel.
Alex, many people argued about this even before Closed Beta, and Cryptic didn't budge.

Apparently, the original role of the "Gunboat" was their decision to use it, instead of using older TNG Era ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-03-2010, 09:06 AM
According to Trek Canon. Both the theoretical Trek manual and the episodes the amount of warp field necessary to propel a craft into warp is directly proportional to its size/mass. The galaxy warp core and sovereign warp core may have been many decks tall but that was so that the warp core could emit a field large enough to encompass the entire ship. Just because the warp core is larger doesn't mean it is more powerful. That is just to help encompass the ship from what I have read.

The defiant could very well have a more powerful core that gives off more power but that doesn't mean the size has to be larger. Matter - Anti-matter reactions only really happen inside the reaction chamber which is the size of a golf cart.

As for phaser array sizes. Well that ones a bit harder to explain. Only plausible explanation I have is that the phaser cannon pulses are much more intense but shorter ranger. A phaser bank can launch a pulse much farther and more accurately but that continuos beam requires a stronger sustained energy output compared to the pulse from the cannons. Although more intense and shorter range the cannons are less accurate in the fact that they are ballistic in nature. Only hit whats right in front of them. Can't be really targeted to lock onto a target as easily. That makes sense to me and would be why the defiant packs such a punch.

As for durability. The defiant shields always go down really fast. The ship is not defensive.

Just my observations.
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