Lt. Commander
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# 11
02-03-2010, 09:21 AM
Actually as i recall, in an episode they actually showed the phaser cannons used power cells that needed to be replaced when used up, vs conventional starships that feeds its phasers energy directly from the main power systems.
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# 12
02-03-2010, 09:36 AM
Must be something to do with the pulse technology rather than beams. Or perhaps how they get beyond the size limitations.

Remember the defiant is "technically" an escort but its really a warship. The only one the federation has really ever made. The federation doesn't normally believe in them.
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# 13
02-03-2010, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsri
Their 'escorts' are really battlecruisers, their 'cruisers' are really battleships from about tier 3 up
No they aren't. Star Trek is set several hundred years in the future where todays naval nomenclature* would make as much sense as 18th century naval nomenclature. General purpose Star Fleet vessels are "cruisers", dedicated warships are "escorts" (because Star Fleet is run by hippes and they don't want to call a spade a warship).

STO has actually nerfed escorts because if it was true to canon most escorts would out shoot most (excepting something like the Sovereign) cruisers in all arcs.

The nature of ST combat makes a nomenclature like "battle cruiser" incredibly anachronistic. Shields don't work like armor belts, and even a comparatively small ship can mount a full power phaser.

* Today's "cruisers" in most countries are glorified destroyers. "Frigate" which is an incredibly common ship type these days was re-invented a few decades ago. "Frigate" is what you used to call what we now call "cruiser".
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# 14
02-03-2010, 10:16 AM
Indeed, in fact the Constitution is designated by the klingons as a federation battlecruiser. :p
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# 15
02-03-2010, 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeRshGo View Post
The Defiant is a fluke when it comes down to it. Nothing in existing Star Trek technology would imply it quality. The only things that could even come close to an explination for it's success rate are:

It was "cutting edge" technology.

Its sucess had more to do with her crew than her technology.

Main character super powers.
Honestly, in any kind of internally consistent universe, the Defiant was an ultimate Mary Sue ship. Lets face it, if there was ANYTHING VAGUELY realistic about that postage-stamp-sized super ship, then the federation should have taken it, and built ships the size of the Sovereign on exactly the same design principles... and ruled the known universe.

The only way I excuse the little Sueship Lollipop being able to stand up to real warships of a roughly equivalent tech level at ten times her displacement to myself is to assume that shes the naval equivalent of a war cruiser and a monitor crossed... a pure guns and armor ship with no real sea keeping, no long-range endurance, no significant strategic mobility, and a short design life due to corners being cut to cram in more +win.

That said, this is the universe where a supernova threatened not only the homeworlds of a faster than light civilization (Oh, noes, Supernova in this star, four light years away... we only have FOUR YEARS before the fastest part of the blast front gets here! Start the evacuation... oh, hell, next month is fine...), but where the SAME supernova threatened 'a quadrant'... and the cunning plan was to stop the expanding (at the speed of light) supernova wavefront by using Red Matter(!) to create a black hole in the way, thus saving Romulus and the quadrant.

I leave all of the reasons why the above makes Baby Einstein cry as an exercise to the reader, but will note that using a BLACK HOLE to keep a supernova from destroying your planet is like using high speed explosives to put out a fire on your living room rug... it might accomplish the stated goal, but fails utterly at the underlying objective.

In such a universe, the Defiant is tiny because its made of high grade treknobabble. The Akira is much larger, while serving the same goal, so is apparently made of an older generation treknobabble (and perhaps costs less to produce, despite its greater size, due to using older, less expensive to maintain unobtainum rather than pure, undiluted ****ium/unobtainum/adamantium stolen from wolverine's claws.
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# 16
02-03-2010, 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcussmythe View Post
In such a universe, the Defiant is tiny because its made of high grade treknobabble. The Akira is much larger, while serving the same goal, so is apparently made of an older generation treknobabble (and perhaps costs less to produce, despite its greater size, due to using older, less expensive to maintain unobtainum rather than pure, undiluted ****ium/unobtainum/adamantium stolen from wolverine's claws.
Exactly!.

It's science fiction... if you want to be snippy and argue this detail or that detail then they can just invent the such and such. Save yourself some trouble and shush.
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# 17
02-03-2010, 12:15 PM
The Defiant isn't that bad if you consider how much displacement in something like a Galaxy is taken up by the huge crew complement and support services needed for that huge crew. Shields also require more power for the larger area they cover, so it isn't inconceivable that a bare bones starship design could pack near equivalent shielding and weapons (in a limited arc) into a pretty small hull.

All you have to do is assume that increasing displacement has significantly non-linear energy cost (more area to shield, larger warp field needed, more powerful structural integrity fields needed) and the small escort designs make sense.

Standard Star Fleet ship design is like a cruise liner with guns.
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# 18
02-03-2010, 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theCorvus
The Defiant isn't that bad if you consider how much displacement in something like a Galaxy is taken up by the huge crew complement and support services needed for that huge crew. Shields also require more power for the larger area they cover, so it isn't inconceivable that a bare bones starship design could pack near equivalent shielding and weapons (in a limited arc) into a pretty small hull.

All you have to do is assume that increasing displacement has significantly non-linear energy cost (more area to shield, larger warp field needed, more powerful structural integrity fields needed) and the small escort designs make sense.

Standard Star Fleet ship design is like a cruise liner with guns.
I was thinking of making the exact same argument, but realized I was starting to feel dumber the more thought I put in to it...
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# 19
02-03-2010, 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skylr616 View Post
I was thinking of making the exact same argument, but realized I was starting to feel dumber the more thought I put in to it...
Don't worry I am well versed in treknobabble and ordinary technobabble.

I am still miffed the Akira and Defiant are in the wrong order. The other way round would have been a lot less gamey. I prefer the Akira to the Defiant and none of the T5 escorts I have seen do anything for me, so I will probably be pimping a Defiant for a long time ....
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# 20
02-03-2010, 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Actually as i recall, in an episode they actually showed the phaser cannons used power cells that needed to be replaced when used up, vs conventional starships that feeds its phasers energy directly from the main power systems.
The Defiant had capacitors. They would store large amounts of energy as they were piped directly to the warp core. These capacitors were housed in series of about 6 or 8. As each capacitor let off its charge the power would reroute to that now empty capacitor and begin refilling it, rinse and repeat down the line.
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