Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
02-03-2010, 04:07 PM
you canīt make every body happy when sticking to a tier system.
some people preferr the akira, anotherone the defiant the next one the prometheus or even the derwish.

what we need is not to discuss if the akira is a t2 or not - but ask cryptic to implement a admiral 1time only refit option that changes the skin of a t5 vessel of the same type (no cross changing escort keeps escort and a cruiser a cruiser)
that is the only way to make everybody happy you still know that you are facing an escort when fighting a Akira.
it would tremendously increase optical diversity in the endgame.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
02-03-2010, 04:13 PM
That creates other controversy however. Theres only so far you can refit a ship...

WWII nuclear subs any one? no? guess why not
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
02-03-2010, 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Seriously Cryptic? Did you slip up in your research?
The Akira class is NOT a heavy escort, its a heavy cruiser!
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Akira_class

That aside does cryptic have any idea how absurd the Akira is right now?
Its by far the largest Tier 3 ship in the game, it dwarfs both the fed and klingon cruisers.
But nooo its an escort, that means that both its hull and shields are like tin foil by comparison and can barely take a pounding at all.

Honestly Cryptic, you should really have assigned the heavy cruiser space to the akira class, and the heavy escort to the Cheyenne class, the later being a very obscure and barely seen ship versus the former that is a very well known and distinct vessel.
they did that based on the premise for the akira. ex artis scientia(which is far more canon-worthy and trust worthy when it comes to ship information than MA) puts the akira as the first 24th century attempt by starfleet to develop a vessel geared primarily towards combat. which of course would make it a far better escort than cruiser... i think your failing to pay attention to what the categories are supposed to be geared to.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
02-03-2010, 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrorJace
That creates other controversy however. Theres only so far you can refit a ship...

WWII nuclear subs any one? no? guess why not
Dude would you stop comparing archaic naval concepts to space vessels?
If anything the USS Lakota proved just how far a federation ship could be refitted.
An old excelsior class being able to match firepower with the defiant.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
02-03-2010, 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogedei
they did that based on the premise for the akira. ex artis scientia(which is far more canon-worthy and trust worthy when it comes to ship information than MA) puts the akira as the first 24th century attempt by starfleet to develop a vessel geared primarily towards combat. which of course would make it a far better escort than cruiser... i think your failing to pay attention to what the categories are supposed to be geared to.
Perhaps so, but it would definatley not have a hull and shields that are total sheit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
02-03-2010, 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khorak View Post
Federation ships aren't warships, every single one houses crew quarters frequently described by other starfarers as some form of 'luxurious', and are utterly stuffed with scientific equipment and even holodecks. Their hulls are covered in freaking windows, and even the little Intrepid-class can maintain and produce it's own small fleet of shuttlecraft while tooling about on the other side of the galaxy.

By comparison the Defiant is a flying brick covered in guns. The rooms are as close to barracked as Starfleet has ever shown, there's sod all recreational facilities, if you want to see outside you walk out an airlock because your window is an armour plate, and if you're lucky you might have the scientific facilities to work out that planets are roughly spherical.

The Federation is just plain better than its rivals, they've been building armed explorers and fighting wars with them against full on combat vessels from opposing empires. The Defiant is what happens when the gloves come off; a tiny little freaking death machine.
I regret that this post is too large to be quoted in entirety in my sig.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
02-03-2010, 05:24 PM
the way i have always looked at it is ships are all about power to weight ratio.

the defiant excells for this reason, lots of power compared to mass.

soverign has a bigger warp core, but more mass to haul around.

maybe im off base here, but thats how I look at it.

Red Shirt
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
02-03-2010, 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Seriously Cryptic? Did you slip up in your research?
The Akira class is NOT a heavy escort, its a heavy cruiser!
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Akira_class

That aside does cryptic have any idea how absurd the Akira is right now?
Its by far the largest Tier 3 ship in the game, it dwarfs both the fed and klingon cruisers.
But nooo its an escort, that means that both its hull and shields are like tin foil by comparison and can barely take a pounding at all.

Honestly Cryptic, you should really have assigned the heavy cruiser space to the akira class, and the heavy escort to the Cheyenne class, the later being a very obscure and barely seen ship versus the former that is a very well known and distinct vessel.
Its xxx years into the future, the ships classification could have been subject to change.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
02-03-2010, 10:55 PM
WOW all of this over two ships jeez1

I'm going to don my nerd sash and bear my star trek badge proudly here.

Ok were to start oh first the Akira Ah... If I'm not mistaken the Akira was armed with a ridiculous amount of photon torpedo tubes for the size it was like a dozen in the front and a bunch in the back even. It did skimp a little bit on the phaser arrays in accomplishing this i believe. Maybe I'm wrong here but wouldn't it being a missile ship still constitute it being an oversized gunboat?

Actually the Idea for Cannons in Star Trek has been around since the Wrath of Khan Star trek II. The Reliant had two phaser cannons dubbed "megaphasers" (according to the tech manual) but basically the same thing large forward firing cannonlike phasers... So the concept of cannons being used by the federation is not old really just perhaps it was featured once and they never featured it again until Rick Berman was looking for new Ideas and thought well hmm lets strap big Fing guns on a ship and make it only fire forward. To be honest the idea of an Escort that only fires in a narrow 45% arc is a joke. The advantage that any ship has that can fire in a (ridiculous I might add) 250 degree fire arc is simply insane by comparison. The ship tooting the phaser arrays can simply put more phasers on the Defiant and have that equal the same amount of damage as those big cannons but in a 360 degree field of fire. The only reason the Defiant was kewl was because it looked kewl it was by no means a functional design of any means. I'm sorry I must repeat that last statement the Defiant is great as an ambush vessel if it uncloaks shoots it's wad off and then re-cloaks before anyone knows they are already dead! If you use it in that capacity the Defiant works. I believe the Federation really didn't figure that one out well though, or they were always put into positions where the cloak was not functioning or some such and had to figure out ways around it. Thats it in a nutshell the Defiant was a glorified submarine by modern naval warfare standards or by World War I and II standards rather as todays "Modern Submarines" are so much more viscious than anything that has ever come out of Rick Bermans wildest fantasies. I am aware though that the Defiant is tossing around what was originally Anti-matter and matter warheads as "Photon Torpedoes" but I'm actually behind the times and really don't know what a "Quantum torpedo" uses for energy to create it's extra ummmffff... To be honest in a real depicted battle going by what they are stating as the ranges for these weapons you would never actually see your opponent unless majorly magnified but you would never close to 500 meters if you can destroy your opponent from 3 million kilometers away the max range for Photons I believe. Which at that range it would be impossible for even a computer to hit something that is traveling ohh say .20 the speed of light or ludicrous if you consider they shoot these things at each other during warp speed and hit each other. No a Photon Torpedo would never hit your ship you would set it to detonate in the proximity of the enemy vessel that would be how it would be effective at such ranges and such speeds homing or not. If you fired a photon at a planet you would level likely an entire State the size of Texas. Unless heavily modified prior to reduce the yield a photon torpedo would be almost like the Death Star cannon if being fired at a planet. Maybe not that bad but certainly a spread of Photons could completely wipe out life on a planet.

If your shields went down I don't care what kind of armor you are packing if one of those thiings detonated within 50 miles of your ship you would be dead. The original TNG actually depicted this pretty well I thought and they went outlandish in DS9 and Voyager. In the original TNG if your shields dropped your ship went boom plain and simple. Only one shot was needed. I remember the episode Concordium the scene where they are closing with the hundred years behind in technology race and determine that one Photon Torpedo would destroy this huge hulking station because it didn't have shields anywhere near what could stand up to what the Enterprise could dish out. Or perhaps reference Q-Who the first borg apperance you get to see what the Phasers can really dish out and it's frightening Each gash the Enterprise made into the hull of that Borg Cube was easily the size of a Romulan Dederidex Warbird. By By Warbird or perhaps reference the "Yesterdays Enterprise" the Klingon "Kvort class Battlecruiser" not a BOP but a larger version of the BOP that is more heavily armored and has better weapons etc... One phaser blast annihilates it.

I was a fan of the Defiant it's a nasty looking ship but Cryptic has the wrong idea about escort ships in general. Simply if you look at it anything that can fire in a 360 degree arc has a major advantage against any ship that can only fire one or two directions it doesn't matter if the Defiant is packing super death rays. It's just not an effective way to fight unless everyone is fighting like that as well, or as I said the BOP and Defiant make good ambush ships but Cryptic has cut the balls off of the Defiant when they developed the Mask Energy signature power as a poor mans cloak for the Federation. The Defiant can't use it's biggest advantage being able to determine when and where the fight takes place and from what direction to strike. You can only choose the direction one time so you better think about it before you do it.

As far as the actual "Treknobabble" that the Defiant is based off of it's Science fiction to date nobody can fold space and put it in their pocket to travel faster than light it's not impossible that this will not be developed one of these centuries but it's not probable. Certainly disasembling and reassembling molecules in different spots is pretty outlandish. Because if you could transform the matter the size of a human into energy you would cause a very very very very large explosion in the process of doing so. One more thing that kind of looks dumb is whats left of Romulus if the remains were scattered that far apart then the planet would have reformed in a year into another proto planet laws of Gravity go figure. The idea for Red Matter was almost the stupidest plot device i've ever seen in Star Trek the only one that tops it I think is "Spocks Brain". But it's sci fi so I don't go in there expecting the science to add up in a fantasy world because it's not going to happen folks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
02-03-2010, 11:06 PM
paragraphs are your friend...
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