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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-03-2010, 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardein View Post
Federation: " If we come out of the Fed Ball we are toast. I just know there is a huge invisible fleet just waiting to pounce on me. Since we have NO REAL CHANCE of going on the offensive we will just huddle behind our mines and overlapping fields of fire and hope the Klingons attack soon so we can get on with the match. I was in a match once where no Klingons attacked us for more than 10 minutes! They are GRIEFERS! This is boring. I can't wait for Fed vs. Fed PvP."

Klingon: "We have to wait until we are ready and only then take the fight to the Federation ships because once we engage in the fight we are at a slight disadvantage. Why won't those cowards leave the ball? Go with the prescribed target priority. Escorts, then Science vessels, then cruisers. Run buffs and snare counters, alpha strike, focus fire. Next. When things get too hot disengage and cloak. Rinse and repeat. Those Feds should learn to play and it will get better for them."


Is this what you want for faction PvP? It is what I see and hear now all too often. This is going to lead to a ridiculous nerf to the cloak or Fed vs. Fed PvP. PvP match timers would only encourage poor tactics.

There should be a way to ACTIVELY hunt for cloaked ships in your zone. Definitely not to reveal them but at least determine what direction the closest one is in for long range detection beyond 10km. Something along the lines of the anomaly scan effect pointing out the direction - but taking up a BO skill slot and having a modestly long cool-down. Many Klingons think this would unfairly nerf cloaking. It would not and in many cases would cause disadvantages for the Federation fleet.

This would NOT imbalance in favor of the Federation because you would still need to close in order to reveal. It would actually loosen up the Fed ball and give the Feds an option for a more active role in what is now for them a "waiting game" PvP. The best case cloak detection range is about 10km with a fully specialized science vessel. In my proposed active directional scan you get feedback indicating the closest Klingon is in "that" direction but haven't detected it. Now you would need to close quickly in their direction to either reveal with your sensor scan or drop a charged particle burst. Another option is to triangulate but each ship scanning could be closer to different Klingons.. and they just split up to better triangulate their scans.

Effectively closing quickly for the chance to reveal will either use an engine battery/evasive maneuvers or a quick full impulse to make a hop and scan/drop a charged particle burst. All the Feds will need to try and stick fairly close or they are going to see the scanner ship get jacked. The Klingons can still avoid with modest effort and this may even lead to an advantageous attack situation for the Klingons but at least the Federation gets an active option to beat the cloak stagnation which is going to drive many potential PvP players right out of the game.

This gives the Feds an option to come out of the Fed ball if they want to attempt to force a confrontation. If they are aggressive with it, their energy levels might be coming back up after a full impulse hop or with evasive maneuvers and engine batteries on cooldown etc. In addition, taking this as a skill will remove a heal/buff/debuff skill from at least one of their ships further evening the odds during the actual confrontation.

STO is billed as a "casual" MMO". It has short-attention-span lack of death penalty and nearly instant respawn. Now you want one entire faction in PvP - the one in which many of the players are coming fresh from fairly easy instant gratification PvE - to sit.. and wait.. for the enemy to attack!?!

Nuts.

Fine - I want a collision detection torpedo AoE knockback to scatter a fedball.

See? I can do it too
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-03-2010, 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheem View Post
One reason the Federation group doesn't move around much, is because there's no reason whatsoever to do so. We can't really hunt you down, and there's no map layout that allows the defenders to force the attackers to bottleneck in a certain location. There's just no incentive to move, for all we know we'll just end up getting farther away from wherever it is you've moved to.
This is what I am referring to.. The Federation - if given the opportunity - will attempt to hunt Klingons. Most every Federation player would jump at the chance to be active in hunting down hidden Klingons. Some would do it well. Many would not do it well and die. Either way they have something to do other than wait. Let them take a skill to let them know in what direction lies the closest Klingon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-03-2010, 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardein View Post
So as a Klingon do you think a cloak "direction finder" would enhance the match for all players or make it too tough for you? You really didn't give your opinion on my proposal. I understand all of your observations as to why things can drag on but the truth is that unless the Federation has an active option things will continue to get worse -especially for deathmatch games. The Fed Ball is their best option as things stand. It is boring. Their outcry will lead to crap like cloak getting nerfed so that all cloaks are useless within 10km. ..and do you want to see escort-only fleets zooming around with a insta-detect? Or match timers?

I wouldn't have a problem with a direction finder, but it would be mostly useless. First of all, while cloaked i could just motorboat around at FI and you couldn't catch me even if you had a directionfinder. It would probably increase Fed anxiety while clustered in the ball, which could be fun. The scene in Aliens comes to mind... "We've got movement all over the place!"

And yes, the Fedball is the proper defensive response and the right way to play as Feds.


Klink players play hit and run with cloak. They play as designed. And some Feds whine about them.
Fed players play in a fedball with mutual support and overlapped fields of fire. They play as designed. And some Klinks whine about them.

As far as I can see, everything is working as designed.


I also am an advocate for match timers, I think they're needed because as it stands now it's far too easy to sit at a stalemate which is no fun for anyone.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-03-2010, 09:34 AM
you misunderstand the blue glob heads twards all enamy ships in visual range 28km thus pointing the direct they are in but only if they are within 10km does the blue glob hit them and how you where they are when i can get in game latter i will atempt to deterime the name of this skill

as for match timers im against them
in teir 4 during beta we had some games that lasted an hour not bc one side was trying to find some cloaked guy but becuase both sides had leanred by then hwo to play there faction

we had galaxys and vorchas healing bop/sci ships defbuffing and raptors/definants dpsing and trying to not die all in all where great games but with a timer you can garentee it wont be that long and less fun and entertanment(you know for playing a game) will be had
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15 Way More =
02-03-2010, 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalybos View Post
Care to clarify on what "way more" means?
Far enough so that at about the distance you could normally detect them you get their direction.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16 Hmm... Please let me know
02-03-2010, 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savaage
you misunderstand the blue glob heads twards all enamy ships in visual range 28km thus pointing the direct they are in but only if they are within 10km does the blue glob hit them and how you where they are when i can get in game latter i will atempt to deterime the name of this skill
Please do update me on this. I haven't played a science ship or captain since the beta (That sounds a bit odd - like almost a WHOLE WEEK AGO is such a lifetime) but don't remember ever coming across this skill. I would feel a bit foolish for lobbying for something in the game already but I will gladly eat crow if it is something I overlooked. I will park my Klingon and get a Federation group together to try the skill if it pans out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-03-2010, 09:53 AM
As a Klingon player, I wouldn't mind seeing this request implemented this way:

The scan function now detects cloaked ships.
The scan function has a 1 minute cooldown.
The scan function displays "Cloaked enemy nearby!" without a directional indicator if within 10km.
The scan function gives a directional indicator of the closest cloaked ship if further than 10km.

Which after reading the last post sounds like something already works this way, only with the exception that the scan would be a skill?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaglug View Post
I wouldn't have a problem with a direction finder, but it would be mostly useless. First of all, while cloaked i could just motorboat around at FI and you couldn't catch me even if you had a directionfinder. It would probably increase Fed anxiety while clustered in the ball, which could be fun. The scene in Aliens comes to mind... "We've got movement all over the place!"
You are correct in that a direction finder alone would not necessarily help. In beta I was looking at about 10km detection on cloaks when sensor scanning and specialized for that job. Not sure if there have been changes to it since. That 10km alone but especially paired with Charged Particle Burst would at least have some chance of chasing down a cloaked vessel.

It could spoil the "perfect attack" if done when the Klingons are not quite ready. It could also cause the Feds to divert resources from spider tanking and whittle down their advantage from the cruiser clump to get back to a more diversified skill battle. I don't mean "L2P player skill" but skill vs. counterskill. Also correct that the Fed Ball is sound tactics given the current environment.. but it is not much fun.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-03-2010, 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaglug View Post
As a Klink, here are my observations. (And I'm assuming you're talking about deathmatch here, because hiding in cloak will lose you the cap&hold maps)


The Fedball huddles at their spawn point. They expect instant action, even when the Klinks have to motorboat across the whole map, get into position, wait for their energy to recharge, wait for the other Klinks to zone in and find the fedball, group up, call targets....Playing as a Klink takes preparation and effort, otherwise they will be instantly obliterated by the feds every time.

It takes 2-3 minutes (I've never seen 10, ever) just to zone in, traverse the map, regen, get positioned, etc. Usually the Feds start complaining at around 2 minutes.

The feds don't have a slight advantage, they have a significant advantage. And it takes organization/preparation and smart play in order for Klingons to be competitive.


There are plenty of times the Feds are at fault for drawing the map out. Feds who motorboat straight up to the top of the map. Ok, a few things here about that "brilliant strategy"...first, you're going to make it difficult for the Klinks to find you. Timewasting. Second, it takes forever to get up there. Timewasting. So if you don't want a 5-minute reset after each fight, don't be cute and hang out at the top of the mountain.



Just because you get Feddybears that expect instant pewpew isn't going to make it happen. Once you do get FvF, you're going to have two Fedballs at each spawn, each slowboating across the map. Yeah, you guys enjoy that.
I badly quote this.

I find that people keeps whining about things (in almost every game.. i'd say, in almost everything in real life too.) while they don't understand how things work and they lose

If one strategy doesnt work try another

I hardly think develpers were so blind to not balance the cloaking factor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-03-2010, 10:12 AM
I would like to see cloak buffed so that when you cloak it breaks torpedo locks, as it stands it takes entirely to long to cloak and the window to get absolutely hammered by fire is to long. BoPs are already paper thin the Fedrats don't need 3 or 4 seconds of free for all time.
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