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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-03-2010, 11:20 AM
I don't want to derail your thread, and I'm not saying that your idea doesn't have merit, but what about if the klingon side gets fleshed out a bit, so that the Gorn, Orion and Nausicans have their own ships instead of everyone in Klingon ships as it is currently. Then at least there wouldn't be one side that's fully cloaked. (Assuming the other races ships are balanced enough to compensate for the lack of a cloaking device).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-03-2010, 11:23 AM
Auto-Fire has to go. Then the feds won't ball, and pvp will happen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23 Serious post or.. ?
02-03-2010, 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvil View Post
Fine - I want a collision detection torpedo AoE knockback to scatter a fedball.

See? I can do it too
Scramble Sensors works well for a few moments of confusion. Try flying into the middle of the Fed Ball and use the Photonic Shockwave Lt Cmdr skill.. Ride the bomb like Major Kong

Seriously though folks - please give feedback on my suggestion for a "Nearest Enemy Direction Finder" skill to help enhance the stagnant deathmatch PvP. There are many other suggestions and complaints.. give them their own thread and talk about them there please.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-03-2010, 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaglug View Post
As a Klink, here are my observations. (And I'm assuming you're talking about deathmatch here, because hiding in cloak will lose you the cap&hold maps)
This is probably one of the most important points mentioned here. the "apparent" advantages of Cloaking devices are good in certain situation not in ALL situations.

Yes it can offer an advantage in a straight up Duel (what Arenas really are)... but not in other scenarios such as Cap&hold and I imagine some other PvP related areas of the game.

Think about it, anything that involves Klingons wining by fighting requires them to decloak and fight like everyone else.

Some combat scenarios involve the Klingon being defensive some the feds being defensive, we cannot put everything in the same basket here.

I played many Cap&hold matches yesterday and we had some great fights, and Feds tend to win them most of the time, while Klingons tend to win Arenas, that says something..it says that in reality the mechanics of the game are indeed balanced, but both sides have strengths and weaknesses, and some situations give the advantage to the feds while others to the klingons and coupled with relative novelty and lack of experience if you happen to be on the side that does not have the advantage to begin with, it may seem that the other side is simply over powered...but that is just an illusion depending on the circumstances.

I had the opportunity to do many one on one's yesterday during these cap&hold, and while there are some Klingons that have full offensive configurations and take one of your shield sides down in 2 volleys only, overall the ships and the game is pretty balanced...It was challenging not overpowering. the moment you get 2 on you that is when its over however I think this is the same with any game.

What this game needs desperately, is something else, it needs a mechanism that Auto Parties people when they come in the PvP matches.

Specially the Arena if you are not in a team, you can;t see anyone not even your own side, so you motor to look for other feds and you fall upon the cloaked Klingons which of course, 5 vs 1, you are not going to last long, as this is not really like PVE where the AI is tuned down, this is full Damage potential.

Remember Starbase 24 however, if you ever got locked by all three Megh Var Battleships and their escorts..you did not last long either no matter what you did...it happened to most..and most taste their first explosion in that mission too..but it teaches one to be more aware and careful after that.

Same deal here in PVP.

Therefore I do not think we need a way to Detect Cloaked Ships with anything more than exists already in the game. besides, it is how it is supposed to be, it is Trek...

"I can see you Kirk, can you see me?" ~ General Chang, ST VI: The undiscovered Country
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-03-2010, 11:39 AM
So does the whining about Romulan Battle cloaking for all their ships start now or after they are released ? I'm just curious at this point . The up roar about Klingons will be nothing to what's to come . If you can't handle Klingon battle cloak of one specific ship , imagine a race that all the ships are capable of it ?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-03-2010, 11:40 AM
[quote=Wheem;1896591All they need to do to fix this problem, imo, is implement a timer that will negatively affect your team score for sitting around cloaked for too long. Something like; if there's no combat for X amount of time, the Klingon team starts getting deaths added to its counter. The penalty would be for the Klingon team simply because the ball is in their court - the only way the Federation ever gets the first strike is if a Klingon gets careless and strays close enough to his/her enemies before being properly prepared.
[/QUOTE]

I think this is a bad idea. I will tell you why: it is too easily exploitable and it only negatively impacts one side. What would happen if a group of federation people all stock up on MES then then full impulse to the lower most corner of the map, deliberately away from everything. This would not allow the klingons, who would then have to hang around and actively look for the federation players in the hope that they find one or else their kill counter goes up. And this is something that came into my mind while reading your post. There are people who would game something like this into oblivion and beyond.

Now what you probably mean is that if all klingons stay cloaked for too long a time, there is a penalty, but then they would just decloak and cloak again and avoid a counter that way. No matter which way you do this, there is a blatant way to game the system that somebody will use.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-03-2010, 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
So does the whining about Romulan Battle cloaking for all their ships start now or after they are released ? I'm just curious at this point . The up roar about Klingons will be nothing to what's to come . If you can't handle Klingon battle cloak of one specific ship , imagine a race that all the ships are capable of it ?
That too, not all Klingon Ships are capable of Cloaking, so it it will not be the same in all Tiers, again, an illusion or a question of perception.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-03-2010, 11:40 AM
I don't know on this. I think its necessary to some degree, but it has to be done carefully to not destroy the Klingon advantage.

They do have a very big advantage with cloak. Cloak detection as it is now isn't really preemptive, its more reactionary, to stop them from running, although that only actually applies to BOPs. We really can't do anything to detect them early. Running at 115 aux and maxed sensors, my T2 science ship could only spot something at around 2-3km if I was lucky enough that they wandered that close. With sensor sweep, that went up to a bit over 5k if it was a debuffed ship. But more often than not, they were never detected until they decloaked to start the attack.

That's just not enough to do anything other than sit in the Fedball. Its not good for early detection, although I have definitely nailed several Klingons who thought they got away and the odd one that got too close. But, if you do find them while they are cloaked, they are in for some serious hurt.

Now that I'm T3, I can play with charged particle burst, but I'm not fond of that power, as its very binary, hit or miss. During beta when I played Klingon, I did my best to stay >5km away, which is beyond the limit of that power. Most Klingons I played with did exactly the same until it was attack time.

At the same time though, there is long range detection in torpedoes. I've chased torpedoes as they tracked cloaked ships just to drop a sensor sweep and finish off the escaping Klingon. A directional cloak finder could potentially offer me the same ability, especially coordinating with another science ship to triangulate. If we sat 5km apart and both used the directional finder, if those paths cross, we have a juicy target we likely could quickly full impulse towards and drop a charged particle burst or sensor sweep or something, and that would give Feds a serious advantage. There isn't much a Klingon can do if that happens, unless the group is ready to attack.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29 Thoughtful response
02-03-2010, 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
At the same time though, there is long range detection in torpedoes. I've chased torpedoes as they tracked cloaked ships just to drop a sensor sweep and finish off the escaping Klingon. A directional cloak finder could potentially offer me the same ability, especially coordinating with another science ship to triangulate. If we sat 5km apart and both used the directional finder, if those paths cross, we have a juicy target we likely could quickly full impulse towards and drop a charged particle burst or sensor sweep or something, and that would give Feds a serious advantage. There isn't much a Klingon can do if that happens, unless the group is ready to attack.
A "Direction Finder" skill could situationally help and hinder both sides:
1. Give the Federation something to do other than sit and wait.
2. Pull them out of the Fed Ball (Your example of 2 science ships triangulating effectively would split the fleet and there would be at least some delay in re-forming a tight ball).
3. Take skill slots away from other abilities if they CHOOSE to use this tactic - this offsets Fed combat advantages more than you might think.
4. Apply equally well to later Romulan battles.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-03-2010, 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardein View Post
Far enough so that at about the distance you could normally detect them you get their direction.
Er, what? You want to be able to detect them at normal max visibility distance? Why bother giving the Klingons a cloak at all, then? If you made something like that an ability, said ability would be mandatory on every StarFleet crew. If you made it a console, say the Science station, it would be mandatory on every Federation ship. That right there would completely break the game for PvP. If you made it a rare drop, the cost of it would be off the charts, and aside from opening up a credit-farming nightmare, sooner or later they would put it up for sale in the starbases because of people whining that it was necessary to play. If you'd have asked for the ability for sensors on a Science ship to pick them up at combat range, of 10km, then it would have been a request that might have been worth debating, but triple that distance? Remove cloaks from the Empire and offset it with increased hull points, because cloaking would be useless.

There's a reason people get ****ed off when devs change things to either completely bolster one class or faction, while negating another. I'd prefer it if Cryptic didn't follow in the footsteps of SOE or Blizzard in that respect.
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