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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-03-2010, 11:22 AM
Its the hardest group to beat IMO. The only way I've come close is when I've been with a committed Klingon science officer that debuffs and heals the whole fight. Unfortunately Klingons do not have many of them and we don't even have a science ship to hold all the goodies the Fed science ships can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamz
My feeling is we Klingons probably need to invest in more survival skills -- Medical Team, Engineering Team, Hazard Emitters, etc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-03-2010, 11:38 AM
In my experience in Beta (i've fallen behind the curve in headstart/live, and so cannot speak to the higher tiers), the good premade Feds beat the good premade Klinks most of the time in T2. The Klignons could come out ahead, but on the whole we felt second-rate compared to the Federation, and DPS just couldnt keep up with the survivability advantage of the Fed Cruisers and Science ships. It was at its worst in the brief time when Science Ships were, themselves, better cruisers than the cruisers.

Honestly, I think the Klinks are (in part) doing better in T2 in live than we did in premade. While we still are stuck with BOPs and Raptors, the universal officers in BoPs are resulting in several variants, including what I've been jokingly calling the Bird of Priest and Bird of Paladin specs... being respectively a pure heal and heal/tank setup BoP. While certainly inferiror to their federation counterparts in the cruiser and science ship role, they DO do the same job... and as alot of people can tell you, the difference between no healer and a competent healer is alot greater than the difference between competent and 'best in show'.

This lets the Klinks hang with all but the very best of the fed premades, especially if we leverage our advantages... deception and information. Ideally, before the first shot is fired, the klingons should know exactly what Federation Carreers, of what levels (and thus likley gear), are in what hulls, with a precise firing order and fall over firing orders, for example:

"Okay, no escorts, Science Ship A dies first since hes really Science THEN Science Ship B since hes actually an engneer driving a science ship. Then cruisers A, B, and C for [insert reason here]. Anytime you see a RSP, switch targets but keep an eye on your previous one... when it comes off, go back if he isnt healed up. Any time you see an extend shields on a DPS target, switch fire to the Extender, same caveats as above. First in is our tank. Second in is our healer-tank. Then the DPS, FINALLY the pure healer. Timmy will call targets if order changes. Run if you get in trouble and heals arent coming. If several chase you, keep running, we will pick them up piecemeal. Everyone ready? Main tank uncloaking in 5..."

The really, really pathetic thing is that if you do all of the above, and your against a really good fed premade, all the execution in the world wont save you from being on the losing side of big hull little hull.

By tier 3, its anybody's game. Having a REAL cruiser is huge. Sure, the K'Tinga isnt as tough as her fed brothers, but see my above comment about 'some healer' vs. 'no healer'. The K'Tinga is a far, far tougher ship than the BoP, even if the BoP is pure tanking skills... mainly because bleed through damage, or phasers knocking shields offline, or sheer bad luck can punch out the BoP's hull in a split second if things go wrong. The K'Tinga, not so much.

Anyway, I've gone way too long and wall-o-texted, but those are my thoughts.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-03-2010, 11:49 AM
It does really require the right group on the KDF side . Firstly you'll need to scout each ship and determine whose what . It may mean having to split your firepower on two targets and using debuffs . Remember also Tact , Sci , Eng is th the usual order , but also look at the rank . How you deploy your firepower is important as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-03-2010, 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcussmythe View Post
In my experience in Beta (i've fallen behind the curve in headstart/live, and so cannot speak to the higher tiers), the good premade Feds beat the good premade Klinks most of the time in T2. The Klignons could come out ahead, but on the whole we felt second-rate compared to the Federation, and DPS just couldnt keep up with the survivability advantage of the Fed Cruisers and Science ships. It was at its worst in the brief time when Science Ships were, themselves, better cruisers than the cruisers.

Honestly, I think the Klinks are (in part) doing better in T2 in live than we did in premade. While we still are stuck with BOPs and Raptors, the universal officers in BoPs are resulting in several variants, including what I've been jokingly calling the Bird of Priest and Bird of Paladin specs... being respectively a pure heal and heal/tank setup BoP. While certainly inferiror to their federation counterparts in the cruiser and science ship role, they DO do the same job... and as alot of people can tell you, the difference between no healer and a competent healer is alot greater than the difference between competent and 'best in show'.

This lets the Klinks hang with all but the very best of the fed premades, especially if we leverage our advantages... deception and information. Ideally, before the first shot is fired, the klingons should know exactly what Federation Carreers, of what levels (and thus likley gear), are in what hulls, with a precise firing order and fall over firing orders, for example:

"Okay, no escorts, Science Ship A dies first since hes really Science THEN Science Ship B since hes actually an engneer driving a science ship. Then cruisers A, B, and C for [insert reason here]. Anytime you see a RSP, switch targets but keep an eye on your previous one... when it comes off, go back if he isnt healed up. Any time you see an extend shields on a DPS target, switch fire to the Extender, same caveats as above. First in is our tank. Second in is our healer-tank. Then the DPS, FINALLY the pure healer. Timmy will call targets if order changes. Run if you get in trouble and heals arent coming. If several chase you, keep running, we will pick them up piecemeal. Everyone ready? Main tank uncloaking in 5..."

The really, really pathetic thing is that if you do all of the above, and your against a really good fed premade, all the execution in the world wont save you from being on the losing side of big hull little hull.

By tier 3, its anybody's game. Having a REAL cruiser is huge. Sure, the K'Tinga isnt as tough as her fed brothers, but see my above comment about 'some healer' vs. 'no healer'. The K'Tinga is a far, far tougher ship than the BoP, even if the BoP is pure tanking skills... mainly because bleed through damage, or phasers knocking shields offline, or sheer bad luck can punch out the BoP's hull in a split second if things go wrong. The K'Tinga, not so much.

Anyway, I've gone way too long and wall-o-texted, but those are my thoughts.
If you execute as well as you talk, good show. =)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-03-2010, 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat_Machine
If you execute as well as you talk, good show. =)
Would it were so. My brain is better at this game than my hands, and I can't yet reliably execute what I know I -should- be doing.

That said... release was yesterday. I'll bet you that we, collectively (or at least those of us that work at it) are going to be so much better next week, next month, next year, that when we look back, even the -best- of us right now will be utter, vile nubs by comparison.

I think we all need to remember that... we are -all- noobs. CB, OB, Prelaunch, even all together, is nothing compared to the lifespan of a game. Some of us know more than others about some things, but the most dangerous thing for any player, right now, who wants to be very good is to allow themselves the illusion that they already know everything, or most things, or even alot of the things they should know.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-03-2010, 01:22 PM
Unless they are not very good I have lost just about every match with a majority of Cruisers. We can't take them down fast enough before they blast us down and then they can just keep warping back and we can't stop them. On the other hand when there is a majority of escorts I've won most every one of those.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-03-2010, 01:55 PM
And on the Hydran 3rd Hand, Tier 2 Arena isnt all, or even most, of the PvP content in this game.

Its just what we are all doing today... so it looms large.

Im honestly only REALLY concerned with low tier balance, inasmuch as it implies things for Tier 5, maxed skill point, reasonably geared (because gear is a never ending race) PvP balance. Because we are (hopefully!) going to be there a long, long time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-03-2010, 02:11 PM
Here's what you do:

Die 15 times while maybe getting 1-2 kills if you're lucky. ;p

Unless you have a really good team that knows how to take out healers first.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-03-2010, 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
It does really require the right group on the KDF side . Firstly you'll need to scout each ship and determine whose what . It may mean having to split your firepower on two targets and using debuffs . Remember also Tact , Sci , Eng is th the usual order , but also look at the rank . How you deploy your firepower is important as well.
Yeah thats what we do normally. I think next time we try to look whos doing most dmg and heal, regroup and fight them this way. @Meat Machine: yeah, I hope so, too. This cruiser is hardly needed in my opinion and I am really looking forward to it.

To Spaghetti Monster: Thats what we did last time. it worked very well...fore the feds Time to turn I would say

jtw1n: same we: majority of escorts: win without problems, mixed groups with one or two escorts: won, 3 cruisers 2 science: lost

Thx for you comments and tips.

Qapla
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-03-2010, 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt.Renak View Post
Yeah thats what we do normally. I think next time we try to look whos doing most dmg and heal, regroup and fight them this way. @Meat Machine: yeah, I hope so, too. This cruiser is hardly needed in my opinion and I am really looking forward to it.

To Spaghetti Monster: Thats what we did last time. it worked very well...fore the feds Time to turn I would say

jtw1n: same we: majority of escorts: win without problems, mixed groups with one or two escorts: won, 3 cruisers 2 science: lost

Thx for you comments and tips.

Qapla
Yeah I just want to make sure you don't think I was judging your strategies, I was merely making a comment about a strategy that works *sometimes*. That's why I said "really good team" and not just "take out healers first".

It gets worse in T4. 3 Galaxies and 2 Voyagers or whatever is an almost impenetrable brick of omnidirecitonal death with a half competent team.
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