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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Ok so i have just finished a good 2 hour session of foundry to build my own mission and to be honest i got bored and scraped it.

does anyone remember the star trek bridge commander game?

it had a quick battle set up where you could choose what ship you wanted, what ships you wanted your A.I. alies to have, what ships the A.I. enemies should have and what sector of space you wanted to be in.
you could also add space stations to attack or to fight along side you. you could also choose the difficulty rating of each A.I. ship / station.

the whole creation process took about 2 minutes with its easy drop down menu selection. and you didnt need a degree in computer gaming to figure out how to set it up like you do with foundry.

now i know that online games are all about the long haul and taking the time to appreciate the content and game play but lets be honest not everyone has 2 hours+ to create a foundry mission. or even to play the drawn out missions in the game.

but we all need our star trek fix. so surly its not to much to ask cryptic that you have a look at the star trek bridge commander (quick battle set up) feature for some ideas. so that us family guys and girls can grab a quick 10 minute basic star trek space battle without the drawn out set up.


thanks for reading please comment i want to hear your thoughts on this post.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
12-12-2010, 02:21 PM
Okay, I'll be the killjoy.


I disagree with your whole assertion. In fact, I think the thing you dislike about the toolset is perhaps what will be its saving grace. Everyone thinks they can make an "awesome" mission. Few people actually can. In Cryptic's first game, their toolset is so easy, yes, the proverbial caveman can do it. Thus, they have thousands of really bad to downright awful missions created by people who thought they were making an "awesome" mission. That's not even including the dead farms.

Here's my point: If you can't be bothered to spend the time and effort to make your mission the highest quality it can be, perhaps that's the barrier to entry to separate the wheat from the chaff. Now I'm not saying 'you' in a personal sense. I'm using it to encompass everyone who thinks it takes too long to craft a compelling story. If simple tools are what you want, perhaps being a superhero in Rhode Island would be more to your liking. THAT toolset is the epitome of simple (and restricted) and it still gets gamed every month.

Realize that not everyone has the same difficulties and issues as you might have. If Cryptic had come out with a toolset like the one you mentioned, they would be the joke of the entire industry, I believe. That system was even SIMPLER than the one in their first game. It's like being given a car and complaining about how complicated it is and asking for a horse & buggy instead ("All I need to do is feed it and I get where I need to go."). Adding it as a side feature, kind of like a "quick play" option will just lead to the same problem the other game has (long dead/abandoned missions that no one wants to play, clogging up the system and requiring an extremely robust search engine just to get around it).

From my time with the toolset (both on Tribble and Holodeck), the creator is given lots of fine control over their mission's setup. There's a price for that and that price is time spent utilizing that fine control. Just like not everyone can write a readable book (or even a short story), not everyone's going to make a "great" mission. But, as with writing, practice often leads to improvement.

What you posit isn't "the answer", it's advocating for regression. While everyone is seemingly clamoring for bigger, better, more, more, you're proposing going back to "the good ol' days" and I don't think you'll find too many allies in that particular battle. If you can't spend the time to create something you can be proud of, then just enjoy the missions other people create. Don't ask for something that will adversely affect everyone (either dumbing down the toolset or adding an option that leads to a whole bunch of garbage one-shots clogging the system) just so you can be appeased.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
12-12-2010, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remianen View Post
Okay, I'll be the killjoy.


What you post isn't "the answer", it's advocating for regression. While everyone is seemingly clamoring for bigger, better, more, more, you're proposing going back to "the good ol' days" and I don't think you'll find too many allies in that particular battle. If you can't spend the time to create something you can be proud of, then just enjoy the missions other people create. Don't ask for something that will adversely affect everyone (either dumbing down the toolset or adding an option that leads to a whole bunch of garbage one-shots clogging the system) just so you can be appeased.
Nail and head spring to mind,well put. +1 Rep
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
12-12-2010, 02:29 PM
Why did you post this twice?

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=193256

You already have a thread discussing this in GD.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
12-12-2010, 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir1536 View Post
Why did you post this twice?

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=193256

You already have a thread discussing this in GD.

Forum police alert.... :p

So he's posted it twice,big deal.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
12-12-2010, 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remianen View Post
Okay, I'll be the killjoy.


I disagree with your whole assertion. In fact, I think the thing you dislike about the toolset is perhaps what will be its saving grace. Everyone thinks they can make an "awesome" mission. Few people actually can. In Cryptic's first game, their toolset is so easy, yes, the proverbial caveman can do it. Thus, they have thousands of really bad to downright awful missions created by people who thought they were making an "awesome" mission. That's not even including the dead farms.

Here's my point: If you can't be bothered to spend the time and effort to make your mission the highest quality it can be, perhaps that's the barrier to entry to separate the wheat from the chaff. Now I'm not saying 'you' in a personal sense. I'm using it to encompass everyone who thinks it takes too long to craft a compelling story. If simple tools are what you want, perhaps being a superhero in Rhode Island would be more to your liking. THAT toolset is the epitome of simple (and restricted) and it still gets gamed every month.

Realize that not everyone has the same difficulties and issues as you might have. If Cryptic had come out with a toolset like the one you mentioned, they would be the joke of the entire industry, I believe. That system was even SIMPLER than the one in their first game. It's like being given a car and complaining about how complicated it is and asking for a horse & buggy instead ("All I need to do is feed it and I get where I need to go."). Adding it as a side feature, kind of like a "quick play" option will just lead to the same problem the other game has (long dead/abandoned missions that no one wants to play, clogging up the system and requiring an extremely robust search engine just to get around it).

From my time with the toolset (both on Tribble and Holodeck), the creator is given lots of fine control over their mission's setup. There's a price for that and that price is time spent utilizing that fine control. Just like not everyone can write a readable book (or even a short story), not everyone's going to make a "great" mission. But, as with writing, practice often leads to improvement.

What you posit isn't "the answer", it's advocating for regression. While everyone is seemingly clamoring for bigger, better, more, more, you're proposing going back to "the good ol' days" and I don't think you'll find too many allies in that particular battle. If you can't spend the time to create something you can be proud of, then just enjoy the missions other people create. Don't ask for something that will adversely affect everyone (either dumbing down the toolset or adding an option that leads to a whole bunch of garbage one-shots clogging the system) just so you can be appeased.
That pretty much goes for what I think too, although I do like the OPs idea maybe as just a quick mission creator for our own personal (or invitee, but not published) enjoyment.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
12-12-2010, 06:17 PM
I like the fact that the Foundry is a little complicated. It means people have to take time to learn to use it: they can't just throw something together in 10 minutes and toss it in front of everyone to use. Mastering the skills to use the software takes commitment; and the people willng to put forth that much commitment are often going to build the types of missions you'll enjoy playing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
12-12-2010, 06:40 PM
The foundry is far from complicated, its the most basic easy to use toolset for a game you will use so far.
Stick with it and if you cant grasp it then its simply not for you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
12-12-2010, 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fewzz View Post
The foundry is far from complicated, its the most basic easy to use toolset for a game you will use so far.
Stick with it and if you cant grasp it then its simply not for you.
I second this, I made a mission that I thought turned out rather good in about 6 hours total. Sure there are some bugs but thats expected and its completely kickass that they even let you do this in the first place.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
12-12-2010, 07:08 PM
I have found probably the hardest part of the toolset itself is just getting everything positioned just as I want it. I am trying to not get too complex with my objects in the maps right now, since Im just going to have to recreate things again later when the tools go live on Holodeck. Right now the thing that chaffs me the most is that some of the functionality I want hasn't been implemented yet, so I have to reign back in my ideas until the functions are there. Granted there really could be a better walkthrough of the toolset, specifically something that is actually built into the interface itself, but I have give a hand to the starbaseugc members for filling that gap with as much information as they can.
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