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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Needless to say, the jury is always going to be out on balance issues. You are going to get douches on either side saying L2P, cry wolf or whatever. But here are the facts.

1) Klingons can cloak. Feds can not.
In beta, there were some tradeoffs and some counters albeit slightly unbalanced. Now, they seem all but gone. Yes, your shields go down when you cloak. But if you survive that last torpedo you are home free to repair and save your team the precious 1/15 point to win.

2) Klingon Tactics = Fed Tactics but minus the cloak.
Notes: Klingons can set themselves up without any worry of detection within weapons range. Charge their weapons to full, and then uncloak and waste any target, cruiser or otherwise with ease. Feds can "ball up" but they don't have the luxury of time to plan their attack nor charge up their weapons. Now I say charge up your weapons as it does have an impact on the game. Feds most of the time have to full impulse to target and then come under immediate fire. Klingon's don't have to worry about that problem. The only effective tactic that feds have is to ball up and wait for klingon's to attack.

3) Klingon's have the best escape tools, Feds do not
If its a game of kills, the team that can prevent the other team from getting the point the best is at an advantage. Battle cloak, faster ships, evasive maneuvers... here are some arguments that Klingons make:
- Cloaking Drops Shields. Yes it does but if you survive that torpedo or cloak the instant you are alpha-targeted, you are home free. No point gained for the feds unless they kill you.
- Tractor Beam!!!. Whether its a bug or not but tractor beam seems to not prevent you from evasive maneuvering the hell out of there. You can still quite easily escape a tractor beam apparently.


I think anyone can argue that the top 3 advantages are HUGE in the arena-game. The same tactic which is most effective is cloak, setup targets, charge up weapons.. and kill kill kill. If you are targeted, EM or BC out.. heal up recloak = profit.


So why do you say "Klingons will get balanced.." the simple truth is this..

in Beta, Klingons cried wolf when Fed's would win most of the time because there was a counter to cloak. Cryptic responded and nerfed feds. If Cryptic makes that kind of response, you can bet that they will respond to Feds crying wolf as well. It's going to happen no matter how much you flame, QQ etc.

So, enjoy it while it lasts, take advantage of it but in the end when the pendulum swings, don't say we didn't tell you so.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-01-2010, 07:43 PM
Let's pretend this is some other game.

In that game, that has 50 levels a level 11 guy comes into the forums and proclaims from his worm's eye view that This Is How Things Are, and that with his expertise gained from playing the game for 3 days, This Is How It Shall Be.

In such a context, he would be rightly laughed at and shamed into submission, unless of course his only goal was to gain the attention he might get from making absurd statements.

So it goes that we tolerate this revolving door of new people who both lack a clarity of understanding of what the game entails, their own tiny exposure to it, and the skills that they lack which prevent them from even having the tools to know what factors they should be considering, were they to really be ready to make these judgements.

Listen well. Before you got here, the feds were beating the kdf most of the time. All that has changed about this game, is you. Given time, and a little less arrogance on your part, that might change too - but it's not looking that way. You want the game to change to suit you, when it is you that are the problem.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-01-2010, 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat_Machine

Listen well. Before you got here, the feds were beating the kdf most of the time. All that has changed about this game, is you. Given time, and a little less arrogance on your part, that might change too - but it's not looking that way. You want the game to change to suit you, when it is you that are the problem.
Funny.. you make this whole story when your join date is January 2010. Sorry, but nice try. Move along.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-01-2010, 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephirius View Post
Funny.. you make this whole story when your join date is January 2010. Sorry, but nice try. Move along.
Forum join date. =)

I'm here for life baby. You had best get used to it.

I only registered because they wouldn't let me into the super secret IRC chat without it - and without it we weren't getting updates about beta status.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-01-2010, 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat_Machine
Let's pretend this is some other game.

In that game, that has 50 levels a level 11 guy comes into the forums and proclaims from his worm's eye view that This Is How Things Are, and that with his expertise gained from playing the game for 3 days, This Is How It Shall Be.

In such a context, he would be rightly laughed at and shamed into submission, unless of course his only goal was to gain the attention he might get from making absurd statements.

So it goes that we tolerate this revolving door of new people who both lack a clarity of understanding of what the game entails, their own tiny exposure to it, and the skills that they lack which prevent them from even having the tools to know what factors they should be considering, were they to really be ready to make these judgements.

Listen well. Before you got here, the feds were beating the kdf most of the time. All that has changed about this game, is you. Given time, and a little less arrogance on your part, that might change too - but it's not looking that way. You want the game to change to suit you, when it is you that are the problem.
Your elitist attitude is really starting to **** me off.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-01-2010, 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat_Machine
Let's pretend this is some other game.

In that game, that has 50 levels a level 11 guy comes into the forums and proclaims from his worm's eye view that This Is How Things Are, and that with his expertise gained from playing the game for 3 days, This Is How It Shall Be.

In such a context, he would be rightly laughed at and shamed into submission, unless of course his only goal was to gain the attention he might get from making absurd statements.

So it goes that we tolerate this revolving door of new people who both lack a clarity of understanding of what the game entails, their own tiny exposure to it, and the skills that they lack which prevent them from even having the tools to know what factors they should be considering, were they to really be ready to make these judgements.

Listen well. Before you got here, the feds were beating the kdf most of the time. All that has changed about this game, is you. Given time, and a little less arrogance on your part, that might change too - but it's not looking that way. You want the game to change to suit you, when it is you that are the problem.
Heres the big problem. as of right now it IS STUPIDLY OFFBALANCE. whether that be player skill or balance I don't care. What I do care about is the fact that those people that will say how badly offbalance the game is will radiate over to other people, and they will be put off buying the game because balance is off. The longer Cryptic waits the more damage is done to its game.

"Jeese, one side completely trashes the other side 90% of the time? ya thats not fun" Then he tells his friends about it and then they don't buy it if they were thinking about it. Oh, and hears a good one. Whenever I told my friends that one side got to go stealth but was weaker and the other side didn't but was stronger the response was a unanimous "Why the **** would they design such a thing?"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-01-2010, 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
Heres the big problem. as of right now it IS STUPIDLY OFFBALANCE. whether that be player skill or balance I don't care. What I do care about is the fact that those people that will say how badly offbalance the game is will radiate over to other people, and they will be put off buying the game because balance is off. The longer Cryptic waits the more damage is done to its game.

"Jeese, one side completely trashes the other side 90% of the time? ya thats not fun" Then he tells his friends about it and then they don't buy it if they were thinking about it. Oh, and hears a good one. Whenever I told my friends that one side got to go stealth but was weaker and the other side didn't but was stronger the response was a unanimous "Why the **** would they design such a thing?"
Because it provides a unique challenge for both sides.

Feds don't have to pvp, they have a whole game to play. If they want to pvp, they can learn to do so, but should we have to lower the bar so that they don't have to learn to jump higher?

This isn't special olympics. Not everyone who plays is a winner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emn1ty View Post
Your elitist attitude is really starting to **** me off.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

An elitist believes that there are people who are special. I don't believe that. I believe that there are people who succeed, and people who fail and most of the time that is due to their choices.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-01-2010, 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat_Machine
Because it provides a unique challenge for both sides.

Feds don't have to pvp, they have a whole game to play. If they want to pvp, they can learn to do so, but should we have to lower the bar so that they don't have to learn to jump higher?

This isn't special olympics. Not everyone who plays is a winner.



You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
It is used, on the internet, as a means to point out people who are egotistical and self centered about how they are better than those who are having trouble. It is usually indicative of heavy bias towards your own opinions as well. Basically, every time you say "Klings aren't OP'ed they're just better. L2P nubs" regardless of how nice you say it, you prove more and more you're acting above the rest. Your elitist attitude is evident in the fact you constantly:

- Bring up game experience
- Flame based on said assumption of experience of other members.

You do nothing but flame those who ask for balance by stating our opinion isn't as worthy as yours becuase we aren't as far in the game nor as experienced as you. Since when did YOU set the bar for who is and isn't qualified to provide feedback?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-01-2010, 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emn1ty View Post
It is used, on the internet, as a means to point out people who are egotistical and self centered about how they are better than those who are having trouble. It is usually indicative of heavy bias towards your own opinions as well. Basically, every time you say "Klings aren't OP'ed they're just better. L2P nubs" regardless of how nice you say it, you prove more and more you're acting above the rest. Your elitist attitude is evident in the fact you constantly:

- Bring up game experience
- Flame based on said assumption of experience of other members.

You do nothing but flame those who ask for balance by stating our opinion isn't as worthy as yours becuase we aren't as far in the game nor as experienced as you. Since when did YOU set the bar for who is and isn't qualified to provide feedback?
and to be honest, meat-machine, while some of it is worthy of saying l2p (like the tractor beam issue) some of it is plain and simple balance.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-01-2010, 08:11 PM
The big difference is that Klingons were forced to become PvPers (and the faction attracted hardcore PvPers) in CB-OB, and probably about a month or so after launch. They figured out tactics were as the causal Fed player didn't. Deal with it... figure out ways to beat Klingons... the human mind is clever and figures out ways to adapt, it happens in every MMO that's put out there. Don't complain because we aren't mindless NPCs flying about in space...

On another note, most of us have formed Houses/Fleets... so there is a Chemistry, plus voice chat... makes things run smoother...
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