Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Run & Catch vs. Hide & Ambush.
02-03-2010, 02:07 PM
The onyl way PvP will ever be balanced in any way in this game is if non-cloaking ships always go faster than cloaking ones.

The two main factors in determining how well you can pick your battles and stay alive are stealth and speed.

A fast ship can outrun what it can't outfight, and catch what it can kill.

A stealthy ship can hide from what it can't outfight, and ambush what it can kill.


Right now one faction has BOTH advantages though. This is fundamentally unfair.


One faction should be the Hide and Ambush faction, one faction should the Run & Catch faction, that way nobody has a double advantage, instead both factions have a method to engage and avoid.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-03-2010, 02:18 PM
The only way?

Absolutely? The only way? No other possibilities exist, nothing could imaginably be done, there is no force in the universe known to god, man, or Cryptic Programmers that could possibly balance this (presumably, by your statements) unbalanced game other than immediately implementing your own, personal vision?

Pray, tell, how did you come to be blessed with Universal Truth, and were do I find some?

(P.S. - Sorry for the tone. I've so far NOT been the one to say 'LTP', but yours was the straw what broke this camel's back. Really, feds, really?)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-03-2010, 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcussmythe View Post
(P.S. - Sorry for the tone. I've so far NOT been the one to say 'LTP', but yours was the straw what broke this camel's back. Really, feds, really?)
Hey, today I've gotten tired of the constant complaints and joined the L2P club. So here's your hat, membership pin, and instructions for the secret handshake.


Oh, and to the OP: You can already be faster than us. You can already run us down. You can already root us. So....L2P.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-03-2010, 02:47 PM
Yes yes, the intelectual paupers favourite cure-all to arguments they can't properly refute "l2p" ... Come back when you have something real to say.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-03-2010, 02:53 PM
((One caveat... if we had true open neutral zone PvP, envisioning a vast playable zone with many points of interest a long way, even by Full Impulse, apart, such that people wandered about 'mining' or what have you...then, and ONLY then, might I admit to some concerns about the power of the cloak. However, where PvP is something that happens in a box, and were all going into it knowing that PvP is happening, the advantage of suprise isnt really there... because there is no suprise.))
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-03-2010, 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothnang
Yes yes, the intelectual paupers favourite cure-all to arguments they can't properly refute "l2p" ... Come back when you have something real to say.
Lesson number one, do not chase the elusive targets. If a BoP battlecloaks and runs away then fine, thats one less opponent you have to deal with right now. The Fed strenght is not in giving chase and picking off stragglers its in staying in a cosistent group and destroying everything that comes within range.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-03-2010, 03:02 PM
Seriously? You think that being completely invisible until you are ready to attack, until you have made doubly and tripply sure that you have every possible advantage, is in no way powerful?

What does it matter if you know the Klingons are there if you have no way to fight them other than curling into a ball of ships and waiting for them to make a move. You are still completely deprived of the ability to make any agressive moves or gain the initiative in the battle.

If all that fedearion can ever do is wait and react you don't call that a huge advantage for the Klingons? The only reason why Ambush tactics don't accomplish anything is because every federation player already knows that they have to stick to their team unless they want to die a thousand times.

If the game was balanced for Hide & Ambush vs. Run & Catch you wouldn't see every federation ship just hanging around the same spot because then there would be legitimate reason for federation captains to believe that they can go off in smaller teams.

That's the whole point of this. If you have a way to pick your fights and avoid the ones where losing is inevitable you have a HUGE advantage over someone who can't pick their fights, and can only watch as they get owned when they come across a fight they can't win.

Right now Klingons have TWO ways of picking their fights, speed and stealth, and federation has none. Since Stealth can't be given to the federation, the only way to give both factions a way to pick their fights is by giving the federation the speed advantage.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-03-2010, 03:04 PM
Wrong.

chars.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-03-2010, 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GnawLF
Lesson number one, do not chase the elusive targets. If a BoP battlecloaks and runs away then fine, thats one less opponent you have to deal with right now.
Lesson number two: If the enemy gets 15 kills before you get any youl lose.

Face it, being able to pick your fights is the single biggest advantage you can possibly have in an MMO. Klingons get two ways of picking their fights, federation gets none. If both have one its fair.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-03-2010, 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothnang
Lesson number two: If the enemy gets 15 kills before you get any youl lose.

Face it, being able to pick your fights is the single biggest advantage you can possibly have in an MMO. Klingons get two ways of picking their fights, federation gets none. If both have one its fair.
You do understand that your lesson is moot. If the Feds stick together than their chances of fighting off an alpha strike and getting those 15 kills increases. If you chase after a single BoP or any other opponent ship then the differences in engine statistics, power allocations and even computer performance for every single player increases the chances that you will be split off by a cloaked opponent. The question here is not that the Feds cant chase the oppoenent, its simply that they cannot afford to chase them. Think of 18th century naval combat, the big ships formed a line because it was the most prudent form of combat, getting split up or giving chase increased the chances of being surrounded by the enemy and sunk.
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