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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-04-2010, 01:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostar
This launch is actually worst than Anarchy Online's! There I said it! AO just had a lot of downtime but when you played you had a sense of community and a world to EXPLORE and things to do.

You can't even compare WoW's and EvE's launches. They both took the time to actually develop the game (around 4 years for WoW) and I remember WoW's open beta being around a month long.

Either way, even at launch when I *could* play I found enjoyment. I want to give all my hope to this game...but unfortunately for Cryptic 'my hope' translates into dollar signs...and that's all that matters to them now.
Can you be any more wrong??

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/feat...inei-first.php

Oh and more wrong.......

http://biobreak.wordpress.com/2009/1...nlines-launch/

Few lines to prove that you are lying...

This article was originally going to detail my first impressions of Anarchy Online along with a brief review of this massively multiplayerly onlinely game, but I seemed to experience slight technical difficulties while logging in to the game so I could write my review

One of the default options of the game seemed to be "Emulate Desktop Mode," as the title continuously crashed to my desktop every few minutes, spitting out various exotic server errors and messages which probably shouldn't have been spit out. I dug thoroughly through the instruction booklet and the online FAQ but I simply could not find a way to disable "Emulate Desktop Mode" and was forced to stare upon my wonderful Windows default background after every two minutes past logging into the game.

While I have no problem with my desktop and the colorful "Garfield" and "Beetle Bailey" icons that adorn it, I was confused as to how FunCom expected to collect monthly fees for a product which does nothing but show users their recycling bin graphic.

Since I had absolutely NO chance of logging in and attempting to review the game before experiencing FunCom's self-imposed "two minute crash limit," I decided to make the most of my two-minute playing time intervals in AnarchyVille. The following is a summary of those events. Nothing has been fabricated, made up, or exaggerated, unlike the rest of this site which is a tightly-woven ball of outright lies and half-truths.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-04-2010, 01:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd_harding
People we must have patience! There are obviously many forum members here who either have very short memories or have no experience of other mmorpgs at launch. It is plainly ridiculous to compare a game barely out of the womb to a teenager like EVE or a mature adult like WoW. You must realise this no?
Yes, your point is fair. But I think the problem that a lot of people have - including me - is that, not being programmers*, they don't know to what extent a game can be changed once it's released. For example, a lot of the concern I've seen, and my own worry, is that the game isn't open enough. At the moment, the game keeps potentially busy areas quiet by instancing everything, and that's a shame: had the developers chosen to implement a procedurally generated galaxy a la Frontier: First Encounters, the size of the game world in itself would have kept players apart as they all went off in different directions to explore. (Giving us some options as to what role we played might have helped, too. Sure, everyone wants to be a starship captain, right? That's why so many people chose to play purely as crafters and entertainers in Star Wars Galaxies...)

It's quite true that this is a new game. But those who are 'whining' about it - what I would consider expressing fair and constructive (if subjective) criticism - are expressing concern about the way it's already gone, not how it might develop in the future. Now if nothing can be done to open this game up, either in terms of play area or character roles, then that's fine. Once I know that, then I'll stop 'whining' and accept the game for what it is (although in that case I doubt it'll hold my interest very long). If, on the other hand, it's possible for such relatively deep changes to be made at this stage, then I would hope that player comment and criticism will be taken on board, and therefore it's worth offering it.

Of course, as I said, I'm not a programmer, so I don't know. I do know that I've not seen anything in the way of comment from Cryptic on these forums - no response to feedback - which in itself is a concern, since it could mean that they're just going their own way and paying no attention to what the players think. I hope that's not the case.

Your point about hurting developers' feelings is fair, and I certainly wouldn't want to do that. It's clear that a lot of work has been put into this game as it stands, and I wouldn't want anyone to feel that I didn't appreciate that. But a living MMO works best when it's a team effort between the developers and the players - which is to say, the devs do all the hard work, and get paid, and the players test the game, make suggestions for improvement, and pay to play it. No, I'm not being sarcastic: that is the tradeoff. The best games result when devs listen to players, and players 'work with' the devs (by which I mean they treat them with respect, take a constructive attitude, and understand that every MMO is a work-in-progress). EVE is, in my view, a good example, because the devs listen to the players to such an extent that they've made them part of the ongoing storyline. Players influence events across the game-world, and the environment doesn't seem static.

But yes, you make some good points, and as far as the real whiners go then I agree with you. There's no point people being fiercely negative and unconstructive about the game. The devs aren't out to get us; they're not trying to scam us out of our hard-earned; they want people to enjoy the game because then they'll play more, and longer, and bring in other players by word-of-mouth. So in a roundabout way the devs benefit from criticism and comment, if they're responsive to it. They don't benefit from abuse, accusations and tantrums.

---
* There's an argument often used in response to criticism of a game: "If you hate it so much, go program your own and see if you can do better." It's obvious that most of us couldn't do better. I certainly couldn't: I never got much past 10 PRINT "Hello" / 20 GOTO 10. But the fallacy is in assuming that because a person can't program, their criticism of someone who can can't be justified. Programming a game is not the same as playing it. Just because I can do my job better than some of you would, it doesn't necessarily mean that you couldn't possibly see ways in which I could do it better.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-04-2010, 01:19 AM
Let me ask you guys something ...

When people started playing WoW, even with it's crappy launch because of extreme server problems, did anyone run around telling people to be patient and that they will add/change content later on? Hell no, they didn't.

Damn near everyone who started playing WoW got hooked and stayed hooked for a long time. They didn't require months and months for the possibility of adding/changing much of the previously developed content around. WoW spent it's first 6-10 months releasing a few bug fixes but more to the point they released high end raid content. They've done very very little work on the quests below 55 since launch. Could you say the same about STO in a year from now?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-04-2010, 01:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xionanx View Post
I didn't mention bugs an glitches, because I agree WoW had them and so does STO.. what I talked about was Content.. WoW had more to do in its first 20 levels then STO has to do in 50.. I am currently a Captain.. it hasn't even been a week and I have already done EVERY mission up to my currently level and I'm 10 levels for "Cap" in STO..

Once I hit cap do you know what I'll be doing? PvP... thats it! There is NO Raiding.. the is NO repeatable mission that requires a "Group" there is NO storyline at Cap.. you just get there and PvP.. which is garbage. Like I said before, Cryptic was handed a big steaming pile of **** and they made ****'ade from it.
Thing is man, getting to Captain so quickly means that you are spending a huge amount of time in game - your average gamer is on average lvl 10-15. The game simply isnt challenging enough that If you and I were playing for the same amount of time we wouldn't be much closer in rank - although i'll admit im no super gamer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-04-2010, 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartiusTiro
Yes, your point is fair. But I think the problem that a lot of people have - including me - is that, not being programmers*, they don't know to what extent a game can be changed once it's released. For example, a lot of the concern I've seen, and my own worry, is that the game isn't open enough. At the moment, the game keeps potentially busy areas quiet by instancing everything, and that's a shame: had the developers chosen to implement a procedurally generated galaxy a la Frontier: First Encounters, the size of the game world in itself would have kept players apart as they all went off in different directions to explore. (Giving us some options as to what role we played might have helped, too. Sure, everyone wants to be a starship captain, right? That's why so many people chose to play purely as crafters and entertainers in Star Wars Galaxies...)

It's quite true that this is a new game. But those who are 'whining' about it - what I would consider expressing fair and constructive (if subjective) criticism - are expressing concern about the way it's already gone, not how it might develop in the future. Now if nothing can be done to open this game up, either in terms of play area or character roles, then that's fine. Once I know that, then I'll stop 'whining' and accept the game for what it is (although in that case I doubt it'll hold my interest very long). If, on the other hand, it's possible for such relatively deep changes to be made at this stage, then I would hope that player comment and criticism will be taken on board, and therefore it's worth offering it.

Of course, as I said, I'm not a programmer, so I don't know. I do know that I've not seen anything in the way of comment from Cryptic on these forums - no response to feedback - which in itself is a concern, since it could mean that they're just going their own way and paying no attention to what the players think. I hope that's not the case.

Your point about hurting developers' feelings is fair, and I certainly wouldn't want to do that. It's clear that a lot of work has been put into this game as it stands, and I wouldn't want anyone to feel that I didn't appreciate that. But a living MMO works best when it's a team effort between the developers and the players - which is to say, the devs do all the hard work, and get paid, and the players test the game, make suggestions for improvement, and pay to play it. No, I'm not being sarcastic: that is the tradeoff. The best games result when devs listen to players, and players 'work with' the devs (by which I mean they treat them with respect, take a constructive attitude, and understand that every MMO is a work-in-progress). EVE is, in my view, a good example, because the devs listen to the players to such an extent that they've made them part of the ongoing storyline. Players influence events across the game-world, and the environment doesn't seem static.

But yes, you make some good points, and as far as the real whiners go then I agree with you. There's no point people being fiercely negative and unconstructive about the game. The devs aren't out to get us; they're not trying to scam us out of our hard-earned; they want people to enjoy the game because then they'll play more, and longer, and bring in other players by word-of-mouth. So in a roundabout way the devs benefit from criticism and comment, if they're responsive to it. They don't benefit from abuse, accusations and tantrums.

---
* There's an argument often used in response to criticism of a game: "If you hate it so much, go program your own and see if you can do better." It's obvious that most of us couldn't do better. I certainly couldn't: I never got much past 10 PRINT "Hello" / 20 GOTO 10. But the fallacy is in assuming that because a person can't program, their criticism of someone who can can't be justified. Programming a game is not the same as playing it. Just because I can do my job better than some of you would, it doesn't necessarily mean that you couldn't possibly see ways in which I could do it better.
Its the real whiners i'm talking about man, the popel that just log in day afetr day to threaten to withdraw their subscription and offer us all lists of all that is worng without ever once alluding to the proportion that is right. Constrcutive criticism is what the forum is for - agreed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-04-2010, 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd_harding
Its the real whiners i'm talking about man, the popel that just log in day afetr day to threaten to withdraw their subscription and offer us all lists of all that is worng without ever once alluding to the proportion that is right. Constrcutive criticism is what the forum is for - agreed.
If it makes you feel any better I just received my $60 credit from Steam after canceling my pre-ordered DDE STO a few days ago.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-04-2010, 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wd_harding
Thing is man, getting to Captain so quickly means that you are spending a huge amount of time in game - your average gamer is on average lvl 10-15. The game simply isnt challenging enough that If you and I were playing for the same amount of time we wouldn't be much closer in rank - although i'll admit im no super gamer.
I almost got to a T4 ship in less than 2 weeks and I was playing very very casually in open beta. And that was with a lot of the quests not working right so I couldn't get them or I'd have to drop/skip some.

Some say people are leveling fast because of a lack of difficulty. I consider that a crap argument, mostly because difficulty doesn't slow a person down, more content does.

If there were more things to do in the game then the devs could divide the XP gains around a lot. There aren't many things to do, though ... so they can't. Instead you have a small amount of things to do with a large amount of XP to gain by doing them. It makes leveling very quick.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-04-2010, 01:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosh800 View Post
Let me ask you guys something ...

When people started playing WoW, even with it's crappy launch because of extreme server problems, did anyone run around telling people to be patient and that they will add/change content later on? Hell no, they didn't.

Damn near everyone who started playing WoW got hooked and stayed hooked for a long time. They didn't require months and months for the possibility of adding/changing much of the previously developed content around. WoW spent it's first 6-10 months releasing a few bug fixes but more to the point they released high end raid content. They've done very very little work on the quests below 55 since launch. Could you say the same about STO in a year from now?
you are talking about the first few moths for goodness sake - it hasn't been a week for STO yet!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-04-2010, 01:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeyx
Can you be any more wrong??

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/feat...inei-first.php

Oh and more wrong.......

http://biobreak.wordpress.com/2009/1...nlines-launch/

Few lines to prove that you are lying...

This article was originally going to detail my first impressions of Anarchy Online along with a brief review of this massively multiplayerly onlinely game, but I seemed to experience slight technical difficulties while logging in to the game so I could write my review

One of the default options of the game seemed to be "Emulate Desktop Mode," as the title continuously crashed to my desktop every few minutes, spitting out various exotic server errors and messages which probably shouldn't have been spit out. I dug thoroughly through the instruction booklet and the online FAQ but I simply could not find a way to disable "Emulate Desktop Mode" and was forced to stare upon my wonderful Windows default background after every two minutes past logging into the game.

While I have no problem with my desktop and the colorful "Garfield" and "Beetle Bailey" icons that adorn it, I was confused as to how FunCom expected to collect monthly fees for a product which does nothing but show users their recycling bin graphic.

Since I had absolutely NO chance of logging in and attempting to review the game before experiencing FunCom's self-imposed "two minute crash limit," I decided to make the most of my two-minute playing time intervals in AnarchyVille. The following is a summary of those events. Nothing has been fabricated, made up, or exaggerated, unlike the rest of this site which is a tightly-woven ball of outright lies and half-truths.
Ok...maybe I should have said content wise when the game became stable. I did mention that the game was down...I didn't get all the errors that the editor of that article recieved. I simply could not login for a week. So, like everyone I waited. I logged back in and framerate was choppy in sections...but, there was CONTENT! And in the day and age when MMORPG's was a new thing, it was not so bad in hindsight and after being around the MMO block dozens of times over.

In hindsight AO'a launch did not show us its potential. Once the game became playable it had content. Sure, I can login to STO and only sometimes (mostly when loaing into Sol System) have to spend over 15 minutes on a load screen, but I'm still playing a game where I can experience all of it's current content, and baby, there's not much of it...and where it's at, it's restricted until you have a mission there that's just like the missions you've done before.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-04-2010, 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosh800 View Post
If it makes you feel any better I just received my $60 credit from Steam after canceling my pre-ordered DDE STO a few days ago.
Actually, yes, that does make me feel a lot better - makes me wonder why you are still posting here though?
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