Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 31
# 1 Reworking the Devidian Arc
02-13-2014, 06:32 PM
The Devidian mission arc is alright, I feel it just needs some redoing, as it's one of the oldest mission arcs in the game. These are just my thoughts, hopefully some people will agree.

1. Skirmish: Nothing really wrong with it, add some cutscenes, some voiced dialogue, I don't think anything really needs changing.

2. Spin the Wheel. The segment where you're rerouting power could have an option where an engineering character could simplify the process. Other than that it's a short mission. Drozana looks much better than it did when this mission first came out, so maybe redesign it to match the new layout?

3. What Lies Beneath: This is one of the longer missions in the arc, and has the most potential bugs in it. Just from my latest playthrough I had my BoFFs get stuck behind the self-locking door and three of them disappeared while enroute to the computer core so I ended up fighting the mission boss with only one Boff.

The mission overall is good with an emphasis on the creepiness factor. The only two things I can think to suggest is a serious bit of polish to squash the bugs and redo the final bit where you go to K7 to analyze things. The mission's long enough that you don't need to force players to go to another station when the starships computer could come to the same findings.

4. Everything Old is New: There's a bug where my characters cannot completely sneak through the station, there's always the last group who just go aggro on you no matter what. The puzzle where you're trying to figure out how to jumpstart peoples brains is an interesting one, maybe add an option for science characters to figure it out quickly. Beyond that, it's okay.

5. Night of the Comet. There's a lot that can be redone here. The biggest is the whole "get casey a drink" bit. You suddenly go from trying to save the future to playing bartender? There's got to be a better conflict than that, maybe during the confusion someone swiped the vital component and you get to play detective to find it.
The final "destroy the comet" phase could also be redone. Having a Klingon come up and say "YAAR, Your the ship what killed my brother, I'm bringing in a whole army to kill you!" really over-complicates things when your trying to shoot comet fragments with over a dozen ships shooting at you.

Maybe have a reasonable time limit where you start shooting the comet and realize the Devidians know what you're doing and are trying to yank the sector into their reality while your shooting at it. To keep things reasonable maybe not have to completely destroy the comet, just reduce enough of it to rubble so that it's useless to them.

Any other ideas?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,032
# 2
02-14-2014, 07:48 AM
Honestly, I think the dev resources could be better spent elsewhere. The missions are pretty decent as is (in my opinion), and should just be preserved in a working state while the STO team makes newer, better missions.

There are much more compelling reasons to change the Klingon War missions the way they did in Season 8.5, because they are the first set of missions a new player encounters, and it's important to make a good first impression. But it also sucks to have to devote dev resources to redoing the same content over and over.
You're right. The work here is very important.

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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 708
# 3
02-15-2014, 11:07 PM
This is probably my least favorite arc in the game, so I agree that a revamp would be nice.

In addition to your suggestions, I'd cut that running between consoles segment in Spin the Wheel and just implement the entire puzzle in a single menu. One of the recent featured foundry missions (sorry, I've forgotten the name) basically had the exact same puzzle and it was much better in a single menu. It's less annoying if you make a mistake, and a time saver even if you get it right the first time.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 44
# 4
02-16-2014, 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidredneck02 View Post
The biggest is the whole "get casey a drink" bit. You suddenly go from trying to save the future to playing bartender? There's got to be a better conflict than that, maybe during the confusion someone swiped the vital component and you get to play detective to find it.
This part you describe here is really funny, and I like it... but at the same time it is really out of place here and completely breaks the flow of the mission. I'd say move this bit to another part of the arc or even another arc entirely, and do something like what you describe here instead.

Also, the idea of allowing either your profession or a Boff to help you skip at least parts of the puzzles is a great idea. I like puzzles, but some are more difficult than others (or less amusing for other reasons), and maybe adding a "skip" function at least a few steps in would be great.

/M

Last edited by keistermatz; 02-16-2014 at 12:07 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,383
# 5
02-16-2014, 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidredneck02 View Post
3. What Lies Beneath: This is one of the longer missions in the arc, and has the most potential bugs in it. Just from my latest playthrough I had my BoFFs get stuck behind the self-locking door and three of them disappeared while enroute to the computer core so I ended up fighting the mission boss with only one Boff.


4. Everything Old is New: There's a bug where my characters cannot completely sneak through the station, there's always the last group who just go aggro on you no matter what.
The current bugs with What lies beneath is known to the Devs, this was introduced with season 8.5. Hopefully it will be fixed as soon as.

As for Everything Old. Are you meaning the point in the mission where you have the NPC walking back and fore. If so, then what you need to do is when he has started on his walk back run around the outskirt of the room to the right, careful not to hook up on the crates at the far end, then once done, you will be able to use a diplomatic response to the group of NPC's in the next room.
Live long and Prosper
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,422
# 6
02-16-2014, 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidredneck02 View Post
The Devidian mission arc is alright, I feel it just needs some redoing, as it's one of the oldest mission arcs in the game. These are just my thoughts, hopefully some people will agree.

So, I disagree, but I find the thread really interesting, as a neat example of how different players can have totally different experiences of the same content. I hope it's okay to present my thoughts as well. The Devidian Arc is actually my favorite series in the game. for a lot of reasons.

1. Skirmish: Nothing really wrong with it, add some cutscenes, some voiced dialogue, I don't think anything really needs changing.

Wow, do I agree. Nothing really "needs" changing, but if they ever get a chance to add some vo dialog and maybe a cool cutscene as you enter the bridge. I guess it's important for me to say that this mission totally sets the tone of the series for me. Once I realize this is about Space Ghosts with some psuedo scientific techno babble about what they actually were I was hooked. This screams TOS style fun to me. I couldn't wait for more.

2. Spin the Wheel. The segment where you're rerouting power could have an option where an engineering character could simplify the process. Other than that it's a short mission. Drozana looks much better than it did when this mission first came out, so maybe redesign it to match the new layout?

I feel like they did a great job adjusting this to the new layout. I really like your suggestion of adding potential accolades throughout the series for the various specializations. maybe 1 for each spec between all 5 episodes?

3. What Lies Beneath: This is one of the longer missions in the arc, and has the most potential bugs in it. Just from my latest playthrough I had my BoFFs get stuck behind the self-locking door and three of them disappeared while enroute to the computer core so I ended up fighting the mission boss with only one Boff.

The mission overall is good with an emphasis on the creepiness factor. The only two things I can think to suggest is a serious bit of polish to squash the bugs and redo the final bit where you go to K7 to analyze things. The mission's long enough that you don't need to force players to go to another station when the starships computer could come to the same findings.

Hmmm, this is probably my favorite single episode in the whole game. Though I agree that somethings like weird boff or mob pathing can make things screwy. It would be nice to see some of that looked at , at some point. I really like the quick trip to K-7. It's where it starts to feel really old school to me. "This data is so intense we have to take it to the nearest Starbase for their powerful computers." It just really all works for me.

4. Everything Old is New: There's a bug where my characters cannot completely sneak through the station, there's always the last group who just go aggro on you no matter what. The puzzle where you're trying to figure out how to jumpstart peoples brains is an interesting one, maybe add an option for science characters to figure it out quickly. Beyond that, it's okay.

So, this mission is where the arc became my favorite. I have been able to sneak my "team" not really , just myself through the entire level, by leaving my boffs on the walkways above the computer core and sneaking myself through , I only have to fight that last devidian fight myself and that can be done. Again, I like the idea of special accolades for different specs.

5. Night of the Comet. There's a lot that can be redone here. The biggest is the whole "get casey a drink" bit. You suddenly go from trying to save the future to playing bartender? There's got to be a better conflict than that, maybe during the confusion someone swiped the vital component and you get to play detective to find it.

My favorite puzzle in the whole game. It's light hearted and has a perfect original series feel to it. It can be frustrating, but its fun to figure out and then you just know it, so that part becomes easy. It felt perfectly set in the TOS timeline and a whole lot of fun, to me.

The final "destroy the comet" phase could also be redone. Having a Klingon come up and say "YAAR, Your the ship what killed my brother, I'm bringing in a whole army to kill you!" really over-complicates things when your trying to shoot comet fragments with over a dozen ships shooting at you.

Maybe have a reasonable time limit where you start shooting the comet and realize the Devidians know what you're doing and are trying to yank the sector into their reality while your shooting at it. To keep things reasonable maybe not have to completely destroy the comet, just reduce enough of it to rubble so that it's useless to them.

Again, I found this part totally reasonable, and a whole lot of fun. Shrug. Different folks, different strokes.

Any other ideas?
My thoughts in red.

Forgive me the gratuitous plug, but if you ever wondered "Whatever Happened to the U.S.S. Rueben James?" that you left helpless and leaking plasma, and then was just gone ten minutes later when you beamed back to your ship? then give my Foundry Mission a try. SPECTRES, Episode 6 (its in the spotlight tab)

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Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,218
# 7
02-16-2014, 06:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidredneck02 View Post
The Devidian mission arc is alright, I feel it just needs some redoing, as it's one of the oldest mission arcs in the game. These are just my thoughts, hopefully some people will agree.

1. Skirmish: Nothing really wrong with it, add some cutscenes, some voiced dialogue, I don't think anything really needs changing.

2. Spin the Wheel. The segment where you're rerouting power could have an option where an engineering character could simplify the process. Other than that it's a short mission. Drozana looks much better than it did when this mission first came out, so maybe redesign it to match the new layout?

3. What Lies Beneath: This is one of the longer missions in the arc, and has the most potential bugs in it. Just from my latest playthrough I had my BoFFs get stuck behind the self-locking door and three of them disappeared while enroute to the computer core so I ended up fighting the mission boss with only one Boff.

The mission overall is good with an emphasis on the creepiness factor. The only two things I can think to suggest is a serious bit of polish to squash the bugs and redo the final bit where you go to K7 to analyze things. The mission's long enough that you don't need to force players to go to another station when the starships computer could come to the same findings.

4. Everything Old is New: There's a bug where my characters cannot completely sneak through the station, there's always the last group who just go aggro on you no matter what. The puzzle where you're trying to figure out how to jumpstart peoples brains is an interesting one, maybe add an option for science characters to figure it out quickly. Beyond that, it's okay.

5. Night of the Comet. There's a lot that can be redone here. The biggest is the whole "get casey a drink" bit. You suddenly go from trying to save the future to playing bartender? There's got to be a better conflict than that, maybe during the confusion someone swiped the vital component and you get to play detective to find it.
The final "destroy the comet" phase could also be redone. Having a Klingon come up and say "YAAR, Your the ship what killed my brother, I'm bringing in a whole army to kill you!" really over-complicates things when your trying to shoot comet fragments with over a dozen ships shooting at you.

Maybe have a reasonable time limit where you start shooting the comet and realize the Devidians know what you're doing and are trying to yank the sector into their reality while your shooting at it. To keep things reasonable maybe not have to completely destroy the comet, just reduce enough of it to rubble so that it's useless to them.

Any other ideas?
1. Not a bad idea. Though I thought the scavenger hunt to guess the devices in a medical kit was odd. Especially for a science character.
2. The redesign of the new Drozana is fun. I actually miss the effect of seeing it in its glory in the past though. So it would be nice if the old bar level was visitable too. Just for the effect.
3. Mostly agree here. The fly to K7 part is a bit much considering how much processing power the ships computers are supposed to have. If they made it like the Mine enemy puzzle where you took your data to your ready room to figure it out, it might be better than just fly around the sector for the lulz.
4. That is for an accolade. Max diplomacy and you can talk that group down. Simian is supposed to attack you if you don't to make the accolade harder to get. (Though max diplomacy? Really?)
5. Getting her a drink isn't too bad. Though if you drink it and get the dance it would be nice if it unlocked that dance for the character.
Personally B'vat and his cronies are not that difficult to handle. But story wise I don't think it should have been B'vat. It should have been a fleet of Star Fleet vessels coming to assist the Ruben James.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,218
# 8
02-16-2014, 06:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffel82 View Post
Honestly, I think the dev resources could be better spent elsewhere. The missions are pretty decent as is (in my opinion), and should just be preserved in a working state while the STO team makes newer, better missions.

There are much more compelling reasons to change the Klingon War missions the way they did in Season 8.5, because they are the first set of missions a new player encounters, and it's important to make a good first impression. But it also sucks to have to devote dev resources to redoing the same content over and over.
Oh and while I get what you are saying. I think that as the game moves forward the old content does need to get some reworking so it is as polished as the later, newer ones. Otherwise new players will see the start missions and think the game junk. That polish keeps things fresh and avoids it looking too dated.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,163
# 9
02-16-2014, 08:37 AM
The only real grip I have with the Dividians is that they aren't presented as a threat in the same way as they were in Time's Arrow. Their big thing was to suck the brain energy (whatever they called it) out of other species and feed it to their fellow Devidians. We don't see any of this behavior here. And it stands to reason that other species would be victimized as well. So why don't we have any brain sucking and such in the game? It wasn't graphic in the episode -- it wouldn't have to be here. I guess I would like to se them more as they are designed and not as pew pew kill type enemies.
>{Andoria}<->{Vulcan}<->{Risa}<->{Defera}<->{Starfleet Academy}<->{Holodecks/Holosuites}<->{Star Clusters}<->{Exploration, Part I NEW!}<->{Other Risa}
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 57
# 10
02-16-2014, 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidredneck02 View Post
The final "destroy the comet" phase could also be redone. Having a Klingon come up and say "YAAR, Your the ship what killed my brother, I'm bringing in a whole army to kill you!" really over-complicates things when your trying to shoot comet fragments with over a dozen ships shooting at you.

Any other ideas?
When you are trying to destroy the comet, after you break it up into fragments or shards and then when you break those up two D7 battlecruisers come after you. Take care of those and then proceed to work on the comet again. It significantly reduces the difficulty of the mission. I learned this through trial and error.

The other thing is on What Lies Beneath, the flashlight needs to be fixed so it actually works.
So, I just push the buttons and things blow up? Fascinating...
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