Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
02-12-2010, 12:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by masterofmerc View Post
the lvl cap is going to be the straw that breaks the camels back for allot of the people who were holding on to this game by a thread I fear for the future of this game when all the free 30 day trial period ends and no one pays to play ne more...I donít want to lose this game the way the matrix online went out but if cryptic doesnít fix allot of the major issues in this game it will not be more than 2 years before they shut the servers down for good
Couldn't have said it better. I didn't race to Rear Admiral 5, but now the Borg missions are out - I thought "hell yeah, finally I get to see what Admiral is like", only to be capped the second I hit Rear Admiral 5 the same day they release the patch. I sat there wondering "why can't I grow my skills so I can use the new weapons made for Admirals more effectively, or at least choose whether to prioritize beams over torps, or whatever?"

My guess is they meant to lift the cap during this release but forgot to, but still, it makes you sit there thinking "two years? Seriously? They gave subscriptions for one or two years on pre-orders based on this?"

And then the other issue with the ranks as is? it's Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral, Admiral, and finally Fleet Admiral in Starfleet, versus STO's Rear Admiral suddenly becomes full or Fleet Admiral. It's not like they couldn't have implemented this system in the game so as to give those of us capped at 45 more breathing room, maybe even made it excruciatingly difficult to skill up to Vice, Admiral, or Fleet Admiral, but not lock us down the way we are because of poor foresight.

At any rate, I'm at the point where I'm wondering, given what everyone's said here and in the forums, if this game has a future or not and whether or not I should be demanding a refund for my subscription... I know it sounds pouty, I'll even admit it is, but even done slowly you could hit Admiral in this game within a month or two of playing in moderation, maaaaaybe 3 if you stretch it out a lot. And then what?

I know more stories/mods/patches/additions will be released over time, but if we're completely hamstrung on any kind of skill developments (and I'm not arguing we should be allowed to max out all skills, but at least continue SOME growth), and/or on using additional bridge officers in battle or on away missions, or even creating fleets our Admiral characters could fly into battles as a new modality to the game once we've climbed up there with our X-number of ships personal fleets, then all high-ranking players have left is to play out the stories (which are actually interesting some of the time), buy a lot of pretty ships and weapons, and scratch our eyeballs out when we've done even that.

I've got another character to develop, so there's that, but I guess what I'm saying is I'm disappointed right now at the lack of diversity across the board that would really make developing a new character in a new field with new ship classes truly worthwhile. As already said, it's not like the episodes have different turnouts, or all that different rewards. Example: You're not a science ship being sent on an errand of mercy to heal an entire sector, you're a science ship doing the same episodes/missions as any other type of character/captain out there, but with different skill sets that're complementary to those other players/ships, but not intriguingly exclusive to the point where you're really exploring a "different story angle" at all.

And finally... there's very little in terms of complimentary content in this universe. No random mini-missions to find the Sacred Chalice of Reeking Horrors for Lwaxana Troi, sexual menace of the universe in her later lifetime, shortly before she runs our characters down across the galaxy in an effort to marry someone. No sitting in to have coffee with Ambassador Picard as he regails us with tails of how he served his last days as Captain of the USS Enterprise (or perhaps even a gratuitous chance to play him while he tells the tail, actually relive his missions). No hitting Starfleet Academy or Starfleet Headquarters and visiting with Boothby's son or grandson, or meeting Admiral Janeway perhaps and having her tell us all about her adventures and maybe letting us similarly actually play the missions as she tells us about them.

It's a huge universe with stories both known and unknown to be told... and none of them are on there, excepting for the brief in-mission descriptions that while helpful, aren't terribly exciting to know about once you've read them. It needs a lot more development... a lot more flavor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
02-12-2010, 01:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtiangames View Post
I disagree. Any captain with maxed skills still has to choose which ship to fly at any given point in time. He/She can't fly all of them at once. They still have to choose weapon loadouts and Boff loadouts, so they can't have them all at the same time.
But you'd make one science officer and that is it. And if I made one, he'd be the same. It wouldn't be that you chose to specialize in sensor stuff and I went for deflector dish related things.

Having to make some choices is a good thing.

Now, not having enough points that you do not feel happy no matter what, well, that's another matter. But that isn't the fault of not being able to take everything, just the fault of not being able to take what you view as enough.

And as far as that goes, I do believe we should always have enough SP for 6 skills to 9 at any level. We don't quite make that at T3, just barely short, good enough. And you only hit 5 at T4, so I wouldn't mind seeing a 20% increase in SP per level for the captain tier. But the content isn't really there to support it at the moment.

Quote:
Go back to the Wow reference you made earlier: in that form of skill differentiation, every level 80 resto shaman has roughly the same abilities (give or take a few oddball specs). What if, instead, every level 80 resto shaman had about the same +spellpower, but instead had to choose between having Riptide or Lesser Healing Wave or Chain Heal. Suddenly, characters would differ not based on how powerful their abilities are, but on which abilities they have prepared. And just because you can switch out your abilities between pvp matches does not mean that inside any given pvp match, you're any less limited by your own choice of loadout.
I didn't make a WoW reference earlier. And I don't really see the relevance.

You cannot go science vessel or cruiser at will? Well, in WoW, you cannot go shaman or warrior at will on a single character, you are one or the other. Unless the spells are supposed to refer to different weapons? In which case, the analogy doesn't hold water. The procs don't make that big of a difference. Torps, mines, cannons, or beams, that can make a dif. But the bigger one is what BOff powers you choose to get the skills to support. And I'd consider that the same as a shaman choosing which tree he goes down. He doesn't get to max out all three.

Now, me, outside of admiral levels, I haven't found myself starved for points. Oh, I could spend more if they were given, but I pretty much got what I want out of the build and typically threw a few points away on some fun stuff.

Which is, in my opinion, exactly how it should be. Enough points that I'm satisfied with my builds, but not so many that I don't have to make any choices that actually matter to me.

Except, of course, the RA levels leave us way short. Not even enough to cap out two skills, though we could do two if the devs actually gave us 5 levels worth of SP, rather than 4. But me, well, 6 skills per 10 levels, min.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
02-12-2010, 03:49 AM
There is never enough points :-) For example in the engineering branch in captain/admira level, all those 4 performance skill raise power levels (thats my observation from shields at least) kinda cant have both aux and weapon :/// i still wonder why they are T5 ://
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
02-12-2010, 07:57 AM
Obviously they'll give another 8k for t5 once they add in last 5 levels. So you will be able to max 3 skills with left overs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
02-12-2010, 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowRunner84 View Post
Obviously they'll give another 8k for t5 once they add in last 5 levels. So you will be able to max 3 skills with left overs.
A whole three skills out of the eighteen available (for an Engineer at least) at Admiral? Be still my heart.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
02-12-2010, 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayanla View Post
That's what happens when you slam a cap on a system designed without one.
Bingo

...this for 10
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
02-12-2010, 03:43 PM
Its a feature...the idea was to force everyone to choose a specialization....they planned for skills allocation sto look like a pyramid. So basically look up at the Admiral skill sets and choose one...its your speciality...everything is for minor tweaking of your persona.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
02-13-2010, 03:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by koro View Post
A whole three skills out of the eighteen available (for an Engineer at least) at Admiral? Be still my heart.
18 skills ? It's your choice which weapon/projectile you take you just need 1 type not all of them. So I took projectile at commander level and beam at captain level so I don't need any of them at RA level. You don't need anything from science tree. You want your chosen ship maxed thats 1 skill, then you can take 2 out of 3 of your space engineering skills. Or 1 ground and 1 space skill. Ground ones are totally opposite and you don't need both. So yeah you can't have everything maxed you actually have to specialize a tiny bit. Or you can take all and not have everything at 9, you might notice there is deminishing return the higher you level the skill so you actually get more for your skill points if your spread them across multiple skills... it all depends if you want to specialize and excel in 1 thing or be average across the board.

And if you take weapons from last level means you had more points to spend on your other skills in lower levels.. if they allowed you to max like 2 more skills all engineers would be identical in RA level since you could take all your skills ? So whatever.

Tho atm with last 5 levels missing it really is stupid how much you can spend on last level but we can hope they give them back soon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
02-13-2010, 06:26 AM
It also seems absurdly easy to skill up in this game. After two weeks of just playing through story missions (I haven't skill farmed), I'm already Captain 2 and will likely be Admiral this time next week, leaving me with no more content to play. It has seemed to me no less easy to go from Liutenant to Liutenant Commander as it was from Commander to Captain. SInce lower tier ships become obsolete so quickly, there's no time to learn to appreciate their nuances.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
02-13-2010, 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axterix
But you'd make one science officer and that is it. And if I made one, he'd be the same.
He'd only be the same if you both flew Science Vessels, slotted the same BO skills, used the same kits on the ground and mounted the same equipment.

Put in the skill cap limitations and this changes what? Nothing. You're going to use whatever ship you're skilled in, use the BO powers you're skilled in, and the kits you're skilled in. If you're skilled in the same ones you're using the same ones... and you're the same.

Oh, but because you can only use the things you're skilled in worth a bit of a damn this you are forcibly constrained into being the same. Period. And of course with the point cap there exists ideals and wastes, and people will invariably gravitate to the ideal and forgo the waste, thus we will almost all skill our characters similarly or identically, min/maxing our builds to eek the most out of each character. We're seeing this already, ideals being written in stone and copied ad nauseum.

Differences. One time choices. Limitations.

Take that cap away and we no longer have to be. We no longer have to step on each other's toes. I don't have to use the Science Vessel, and Viral Matrix III, and Triage kit that you do just because we both have those skills upped on our sheets. No, instead I can choose to use a Cruiser or Escort I may have skilled as well, maybe slot a High Yield Torpedo III or Engineering Team III BO power instead, and use a debuffing kit as opposed to the Triage one. Now, ta-da, we're different in concrete gameplay terms and neither one of us has to kneecap our effectiveness by using things we don't have skilled to allow for that difference.

Differences. Constant choices. Options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axterix
Having to make some choices is a good thing.
There's choice either way. You aren't asking for choices, you're asking for limitations while the opposition wants options. That's the truth of the matter.

You can't even straw man the opposition by saying they just "want it all" because "it all" is mutually exclusive due to how gear/BOff-dependent everything is. They want options, plain and simple, and with the incredibly low character slot limit in place in this game and the amount of content it currently lacks (thus forcing a narrow, linear, identical path to Admiral each play through) it's not hard to see why people want these options instead of being force to level "alts."
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