Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-04-2010, 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun.Devil
I don't see how the use of instances make the game world any more or less persistent that other game worlds. In other MMOs, you similarly have no ability to change the world. In all MMOs that I know of, MOBs and destructible objects respawn and instances reset. That is the nature of MMOs, isn't it?
well for me its when the changes players can make in the world remain
it could be any persistance

non instanced player housing / buildings
global effects of alliances
control of the map
crafting and resources
editing of the environment (yes there are some that allow it)
anything of yours that remains in the world and can be seen / interacted with by other players when you are not logged in

theres tons of things that make games persistant
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-04-2010, 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swag-nyc View Post
well for me its when the changes players can make in the world remain
it could be any persistance

non instanced player housing / buildings
global effects of alliances
control of the map
crafting and resources
editing of the environment (yes there are some that allow it)
anything of yours that remains in the world and can be seen / interacted with by other players when you are not logged in

theres tons of things that make games persistant
Pretty much. Unfortunately this kind of game is almost gone, we're entering the fast food era of MMOs. The CORPG.

Like I said, not a bad thing if it's done well. I just expect it to be done well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-04-2010, 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun.Devil
I don't see how the use of instances make the game world any more or less persistent that other game worlds. In other MMOs, you similarly have no ability to change the world. In all MMOs that I know of, MOBs and destructible objects respawn and instances reset. That is the nature of MMOs, isn't it?
In general yea, but some games do allow this in some form. Take WoW they have some persistent stuff but not much. Opening gates to AQ was one.

If there is anything like that in STO at the moment I don't know as I haven't seen it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-04-2010, 12:09 PM
Ulfhedjinn, when you say some people like to say that there is a crafting system what exactly do you mean? What is this system you're talking about?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-04-2010, 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjooee93 View Post
Unfortunately I missed the beta's, so I wasn't able to join in all the fun and I can't really buy the retail version of this game right now because my desktop isn't up to snuff (I'll be getting a new one soon, and then buy STO) but I'm just wondering if this game is your traditional MMO? I mean does it have classes? Can you be a war-officer? or a scientist/medic or something like that? Is there levels?
Its not a traditional mmorpg. Even though, on paper, Cryptic allows a choice of tactical, science, and engineering to be able to get an exclusive power for whichever class, the game-play does NOT favor anything but tactical when playing the scenarios because rewards/points are based soley on damage. Since that doesnt favor an engineer or science type officer, your gain of experience during game-play is blunted.

Aside from that, for more of a vet mmorpg player, I find that lacks lasting mmorpg game-play appeal. So my take based on my experience and having explored the experience posted of others is this:

- There doesn't seem to be much respect for the Star Trek IP.

- Space is space-less. Each map is nothing more than a confining shoe-box, a small space of nothing to interact with.

- There is no game-play freedom of exploration. No exploration to other planets or discovery; again, your confined to your shoe-box instance. There's nothing dynamically to do in this game that would be reminiscent of Star Trek.

- If you do see a planet on an instanced map, there is no "away-team" capability to freely explore its surface. Its nothing more than a static inactive marble that you bounce off of in your confined instance.

- Space flight is confining and lacks freedom. There's a limited z-axis that prevents looping or gaining weapons locks on ships that are above or below, yet in front of you in many cases. It just adds to the unnecessary maneuvering of your ship.

- Space is life-less, other than the instance nodes that you bump into to enter for a ship pve encounter, or to wait in a long line of trying to perform pvp with other players; its esentially a single-player lobby system game that your forced to pay $15 a month for. If you see an opposing faction player on a system map, there is absolutely no engagement.

- Content is sorely lacking to the point where very very early on in this game, the 'instanced' pve quests are nothing more than similar repeatable maps and mobs of previous quests done; the static nature of pve and its' redundancy is astounding.

- Quest copywriting seems very week that leads to weak story engagement or sense of draw that your actually contributing to a story-arc or meaningfully contributing to federation or klingon game-play.

- Space and ground game-play combat has the most limiting, redundant, Quake 3rd-person shooter type feel of any game in the mmorpg market; its shallow.

- There is no physics to ground combat as there is no physics to space combat that factor into game-play.

- Ground and Space pvp combat amounts to a frag-fest of limited players and non-tactical or strategic importance in any respect to story or game-play in this faction vs. faction environment.

- Like a 3rd-person or first-person shooter, the player-vs-player stuff is without any game-play contributory value, other than winning a small confining map, it amounts to run, gun, die, or run,gun, win, limp, die. But your rewarded as much for being a loser as a winner; no mmoprg game-play distinction. I havent found the game-play nutrition in this yet.

- There is no reasonable complimentary opposite to winning. You win in space and on ground, you get a battery or such (a weak reward), you lose on space or on ground, you miraculously reappear next to the fight to battle like a button mashing mindless drone without consequences again.

- The community (massively multiplayer) element of this mmorpg is very ***, as opposed to expanded and cooperative) due to the great number of single-player feel instances. Community feels fragmented to one of those several small instanced zones that does nothing to encourage the feel of massively multiplayer entertainment.

- No alternative industry, aka, no resource gathering towards community crafting, enterprise, or merchandising elements for the federation or klingons. Would be nice if this mmorpg staple were available to players, rather than being non-existant.

This product not only falls way short of being an appealing Star Trek Game franchise, but how weak its game-play is to many a vet mmorpg person to garner any type of lasting fun.

But then again, it'll be interesting to see how the 'new' subscribers to the mmorpg genre pick up on this game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-04-2010, 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjooee93 View Post
Ulfhedjinn, when you say some people like to say that there is a crafting system what exactly do you mean? What is this system you're talking about?
There is a system by which you scan and loot anomalies, the loot you collect (data "cards") can be turned-in at an NPC for upgrades on your weapons and other equipment. Cryptic marketed this as a crafting system, some players stand by it.

Personally, I just view it as a form of currency. It's quite clearly inspired by "emblems" in World Of ********.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-04-2010, 12:21 PM
It is a typical MMO - grind missions, level, repeat until mythical "end game" at which point you do PVP and, further down the line I imagine, raids of some description.

The upside is that this isn't a fantasy game and is instead using Star Trek lore.

The downside is that wherever a corner could be found in the design process is was judiciously cut.

Whether that's a good thing or not is entirely up to you.

However despite my many varied complaints I'm still playing it because I like Star Trek (and that's the only reason).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-04-2010, 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulfhedjinn View Post
However the game world is not persistent. It is more similar to Guild Wars, which NCSoft called a "co-operative role-playing game" or CORPG, because everything is instanced and any influence you had on the world vanishes as soon as you leave the instance. There is also no crafting system, although some like to consider it one.
It's persistent in that the world is there when you come back. Your ship remains, your items remain, and other people have been progressing while you've been away. If the server restarts, everyone's location, items, etc., are where they were wen it closed.

Any gameworld that remains and continues forward when you aren't playing is persistent.

By your logic WoW isn't persistent because many of its most important locations share the same trait as STO instances; the instance resets or ceases to be when you leave.

Instances aren't persistent, but the overall game is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-04-2010, 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjooee93 View Post
Ulfhedjinn, when you say some people like to say that there is a crafting system what exactly do you mean? What is this system you're talking about?
Traditional "crafting" typically has you gather materials then craft an item. The only main difference I've seen so far is that you will always need a lower tier item (i.e. a store-bought item) in addition to crafting materials you gather from missions / quests.

Some people call it an "upgrade" system, others call it "crafting". Still undecided on how I like the system but we'll see when I actually have materials to use.

Edit: Ulfhedjinn replied faster than I could type >_>
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-04-2010, 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulfhedjinn View Post
There is a system by which you scan and loot anomalies, the loot you collect (data "cards") can be turned-in at an NPC for upgrades on your weapons and other equipment. Cryptic marketed this as a crafting system, some players stand by it.

Personally, I just view it as a form of currency. It's quite clearly inspired by "emblems" in World Of ********.
Only notable difference is that an NPC performs the labor instead of your character. That's fine in my book. A starship captain is a captain, not a blacksmith. You still acquire materials like any "normal" crafting system and you still grind in order to gain access to improved creatable products.

Even an idea I proposed as an alternate system that including finding recipes still had something other than your character doing the actual producing- in my idea's case, the ship's replicator.
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