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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 91
02-05-2010, 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Tier 1: It's okay
Tier 2: Overpowered
Tier 3: You crazy?

First off Cryptic, nice having Federations and Klingons spawn immediately at the Start of the Resource Battle. Really makes sense.

4 Tier 3 BoPs and 1 K'T'inga vs 3 Federation Heavy Cruisers and 3 Escort Cruisers, over in 30 seconds. 1 Loss on the Klingon side, and 3 Federation losses.


Still think they aren't overpowered?


So what's Tier 4 and Tier 5 going to be like?

Again post who what when where and what you've tried or STFU. No wants to hear what you have to say unless you've tried different approaches with out success which, from your post, it's clear you haven't.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 92 Imo
02-05-2010, 06:06 AM
How do we measure imbalance within a game? Is it by the number of people who whinge about something in the forums? What if there are a lot more people playing feds and perhaps more whingers on their side... does that mean the feds will have pulling power that is proportional to the amount of whinging?

I hope none of the above is true (and I don't think it is).

A lot of people come on these threads with their chest puffed out- totally convinced they are correct and some may even provide to you a resume. For example

"I am an Admiral Rank 5 at the moment. I have been like that for a few days now. I played both Klingon and Federation PvP from beta to now. I have played 100's of matches of PvP both PUG and premade. You can take my experience as that or just keep on insulting everyone who disagrees with you and ask them to do the impossible to prove you wrong." -Aior

Nothing against you AIOR, but I think you answered the issue in your post where you said "and ask them to do the impossible to prove you wrong". Indeed, you are not going to prove anyone wrong or right (and that includes setting straight the person you wrote to (trust me they will probably think first of a rebuttle rather than hearing what you said). Everyone has a series of experiences they hold dear to their heart- but your experiences are not going to undermine the truth of my own experiences.

What I am getting at is this- people should just leave constructive feedback/ post about their experiences in forums and stop whinging or trying to prove others wrong about gameplay issues- it just doesn't work. I don't care who you are or what rank you claim to be.

Ok now for the issue at hand-

Is the game imbalanced? Probably- a perfect balance takes time to develop. Are the Klingons seriously overpowered? Not really in my experience. I was surprised most when the OP said that the Klingons are overpowered in Tier 2. You know there is a reason they are introducing a cruiser- the Klinks desperately need it! Having played open beta and the game since launch, my pvp experience has shown me that teamwork is key. You are almost never going to get two equally skilled sides (because even the pros have good and bad days). The 'better side' of the day can always be beaten by a less skilled side if the latter are chatting to each other and working much more cohesively than the former. This is not an fps where a player can **** everyone on the opposing side without a team (such as Call of Duty HC mode). I believe that 99% of the time if not 100% slight game imbalances would not be felt because teamwork has such a huge impact on success (this and the fact that good players are fairly adaptive and don't whinge about minor stuff). Serious imbalances will be felt but I am sure these will be so glaringly obvious that change will eventually occur. The devs seem fairly reasonable to me- and I do believe they want the game to be great despite all the bad rap they get- a great game creates brand loyalty which = $$ so it's in their interest.

Anyway that is my spiel on the matter. I agree that balance is important for the game so don't take my comment as implying the contrary. I really hope that people on STO can have the notion of 'teamwork' at the forefront of their minds rather than 'the other team has an advantage and its not fair'. If they did, they may find they have a lot less to complain about as they enjoy the experience of earning a win with some mates.

BTW- teamwork DOES include playing different parts/roles in the team and thus affects starship group composition. If you don't have a science ship/escort/cruiser in your team and you suffer a terrible loss- perhaps it is time to try new things?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 93
02-05-2010, 07:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by petie86 View Post
Exactly this - no Science Ship, I was getting shot at 10km cloaked earlier by a science ship
I didn't think they could see me that far, but obviously they could
With the scanner sweep self buff (assuming them maxed out their sensor arrays for the debuff portion) plus some ways to get their Aux to 125, they could probably pull this off.

I know I use EPS on the sci ships between fights to help them detect slightly farther.

This thread is pretty stupid though, the sheer number of mistakes I see on fed side all mirror CB feds.... escorts turreting, have no healing, they try and shoot a Bcruiser from the front despite having the better turn rate... ugh.

Thats not klings overpowered, thats bad fed piloting. I can take a Bcruiser head-on with my cruiser and generally have the upper hand... just because I build properly.

Im running around with 125 weapon energy and 97ish shield energy for a good chunk of a fight.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 94
02-05-2010, 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lando_AUS View Post
How do we measure imbalance within a game? Is it by the number of people who whinge about something in the forums? What if there are a lot more people playing feds and perhaps more whingers on their side... does that mean the feds will have pulling power that is proportional to the amount of whinging?

I hope none of the above is true (and I don't think it is).

A lot of people come on these threads with their chest puffed out- totally convinced they are correct and some may even provide to you a resume. For example

"I am an Admiral Rank 5 at the moment. I have been like that for a few days now. I played both Klingon and Federation PvP from beta to now. I have played 100's of matches of PvP both PUG and premade. You can take my experience as that or just keep on insulting everyone who disagrees with you and ask them to do the impossible to prove you wrong." -Aior

Nothing against you AIOR, but I think you answered the issue in your post where you said "and ask them to do the impossible to prove you wrong". Indeed, you are not going to prove anyone wrong or right (and that includes setting straight the person you wrote to (trust me they will probably think first of a rebuttle rather than hearing what you said). Everyone has a series of experiences they hold dear to their heart- but your experiences are not going to undermine the truth of my own experiences.

What I am getting at is this- people should just leave constructive feedback/ post about their experiences in forums and stop whinging or trying to prove others wrong about gameplay issues- it just doesn't work. I don't care who you are or what rank you claim to be.

Ok now for the issue at hand-

Is the game imbalanced? Probably- a perfect balance takes time to develop. Are the Klingons seriously overpowered? Not really in my experience. I was surprised most when the OP said that the Klingons are overpowered in Tier 2. You know there is a reason they are introducing a cruiser- the Klinks desperately need it! Having played open beta and the game since launch, my pvp experience has shown me that teamwork is key. You are almost never going to get two equally skilled sides (because even the pros have good and bad days). The 'better side' of the day can always be beaten by a less skilled side if the latter are chatting to each other and working much more cohesively than the former. This is not an fps where a player can **** everyone on the opposing side without a team (such as Call of Duty HC mode). I believe that 99% of the time if not 100% slight game imbalances would not be felt because teamwork has such a huge impact on success (this and the fact that good players are fairly adaptive and don't whinge about minor stuff). Serious imbalances will be felt but I am sure these will be so glaringly obvious that change will eventually occur. The devs seem fairly reasonable to me- and I do believe they want the game to be great despite all the bad rap they get- a great game creates brand loyalty which = $$ so it's in their interest.

Anyway that is my spiel on the matter. I agree that balance is important for the game so don't take my comment as implying the contrary. I really hope that people on STO can have the notion of 'teamwork' at the forefront of their minds rather than 'the other team has an advantage and its not fair'. If they did, they may find they have a lot less to complain about as they enjoy the experience of earning a win with some mates.

BTW- teamwork DOES include playing different parts/roles in the team and thus affects starship group composition. If you don't have a science ship/escort/cruiser in your team and you suffer a terrible loss- perhaps it is time to try new things?
You sir, are correct. <3
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 95
02-05-2010, 07:06 AM
From my experiences Klingon were not OP in T2. I agree with that 100%

T1 and T3 the Klingons do have a solid advantage from the rounds I played.

T4 and T5 have not nearly been tested enough, but T5 will be the key.

This game will be balanced around T5 more than anything. We will see soon enough. There are 100's of Fed Admirals and PvP matches happen once every 5 hours if you queue up as a Fed right now :-p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 96
02-05-2010, 07:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aior
From my experiences Klingon were not OP in T2. I agree with that 100%

T1 and T3 the Klingons do have a solid advantage from the rounds I played.

T4 and T5 have not nearly been tested enough, but T5 will be the key.

This game will be balanced around T5 more than anything. We will see soon enough. There are 100's of Fed Admirals and PvP matches happen once every 5 hours if you queue up as a Fed right now :-p
T3 they dont have an advantage... your just likely to end up with someone who has barely PvP'd before on your team as fed. Which is basically putting you in a 5v4 situation with someone feeding kills to them. Yes, I am playing fed, and I have played both fed and kdf to high levels before

Though I did win this one match when we had a saber on our team in T3. Extend shields can keep even that little squishy POS alive.

BoPs are kinda lame with viral matrix (WoW rogue lame), but while viral is lame, its also made completely useless by science team. So you can counter it reasonably well. (the hold immunity after doesnt seem to do anything though, and I wouldnt hold my breath if you think it wont get tweaked sooner or later)

T5 is going to need tweaking, the number of PvP matches in T5 during CB and OB was likely very, very low.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 97
02-05-2010, 09:25 AM
hey

can we put moratorium/ month for example
on balancing issues disc ?

i mean even if op is right and klingons are over powered in PvP
(its not that i agree its just that iam lack of experience to have a view)

the pvp is all thy have for now

there are so much more important things to fix

btw if game is balanced on team vs team ... less optimized (without science ) team will loose
and thats ok because thats the POINT

without that you will have all escorts or alll cruiser in pvp
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 98
02-05-2010, 09:29 AM
After playing with PUGs alot in the last two days in T3 due to RL time constraints, all I have to say to the Fed whiners is GTFO. 90% Klingon losses because focus fire with three people is doing NOTHING to an average Cruiser or Science vessel.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 99
02-05-2010, 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face
With the scanner sweep self buff (assuming them maxed out their sensor arrays for the debuff portion) plus some ways to get their Aux to 125, they could probably pull this off.
With the scanner sweep debuff (or rather the perception buff from the skill), a sci console and deflector with +sensors, and 37 aux (25+efficient+impulse engines with + to all power levels+efficient saurian boff), an escort can detect cloaked ships at over 12 km. Just speaking from personal experience.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 100
02-05-2010, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustTray View Post
Can you please stop lying and making up facts in every thread that supports balancing Klingons? You're a horrible fanboy and your lack of common sense and logic is simply distasteful to read.
this one is just funny

its obvious that most feds dont know what teamwork is otherwise theyd never loose

me when i get in my fed sci ships and pug i win almost every time why you ask? becuse I HEAL MY TEAM MATES along with having power in aux to detect kligons

and yes the ideal fed team atm is 3 cruiser s and 2 sci ships if all 5 have the right skills kligons will not kill the cruisers and might mange to kill one of the sco shis but wil take 2-3 looses each time

in almost every one of the feds i want to ask how much healying did you do? how much healing did your team do? how mnay sci ships did you have? but the sci ship question was already answered they didnt so the failed

now somthing these people seem to forget is the bop can be a dps ship OR a sci vessle and mostlikly in the above battle 1 or more of those bop was a sci vessle and you had none to counter it if i was making a premade right now there are only 3 configurations(on fed or kligon id role) 5 cruisers, 5 sci ships, or 3 cruisers and 2 sci ships
what do we notice there are no escorts why are there no escorts?
well lets see escorts are all about dps theyplay for themselves not the team in team fighting its all about teamwork and ecorts just dont contribute much to team work as this game is baised to defence def out ways offense every time which is why i amazed at all the qq threds bc feds are MORE deffensive then kligons and if people have a clue about how to play feds will NEVER loose

i play both kligon and fed ive seen both sides have you?
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