Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,310
# 41
02-26-2014, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by noblet View Post
Read my previous post. The typical newbie who needs to ask, will have the ~10% chance you mentioned, and at the same time the ~100% severity. That's why it matches. You call it coincidence, I call it wisdom and foresight on the part of the person who came up with that rule of thumb. He gave the right answer to the right person.



If you're not that newbie who needs to ask, don't ask, use the calculator.
http://comatoes.github.io/sto-crit-calc/
Noblet its easy to get to 20+ critH and still be under 100 critD.

Just stack five romulan SROs and some crit hit universal consoles (assim, 0point, etc) with the tier 2 romulan crit passive and youll see a massive crit with very low critD. (on a tac romulan cappy with operative that would come out to 23 percent crit with a severity of only 92)

In fact boffs are usually the first thing the people get, and with their 1:2.5 ratio you will easily see how this occurs.

I dont know why you insist so much on arguing with me, but I am right, and you know I am.

The above captain is going to need either 4E/1L or 3E/2L to hit the sweet spot. In either case, 5 locators would NOT be his optimal DPS.
Vice Admiral Rylana - U.S.S. DNT Omega X || Vice Admiral Lyzara - I.R.W. DNT Omicron X
Vice Admiral Kailiana - R.R.W. DNT Theta X || Vice Admiral Talina - I.R.W. DNT Tau X
Vice Admiral Victoria - U.S.S. DNT Upsilon X || Lt. General Dannika - I.K.S. DNT Sigma X
Vice Admiral Shondra - R.R.W. DNT Alpha X || Lt. General Rosanna - I.K.S. DNT Iota X
=== Vice Squad/House of Tlhap-Jen ===

Last edited by rylanadionysis; 02-26-2014 at 12:46 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,464
# 42
02-26-2014, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
Why do ppl keep insisting on a 1:10 rule of thumb?! As if it were at all feasible to get 30%/300% CrtH/CrtD.

And what if ppl only have 10% CrtH? Would someone seriously suggest they only get 100 CrtD for 'optimum'?!

From all I've seen so far, 1:5 seems far more reasonable, and actually doable; like 25/125; or 30/150, etc.
1:10 is the Weapon Mod ratio.
1:5 is the Advanced Tactical Vulnerability Console ratio.

Funny, eh?

Then again, you start off with a 1:20 ratio.

Yes, I'm babbling about the inconsistency of ratios here too - even though I created a thread specifically to babble about it.

I really wish I could find the formula thissler did - was a damn nifty formula. But either the thread I saw it in got nuked or I imagined the whole thing...
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,666
# 43
02-26-2014, 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by noblet View Post
Read my previous post. The typical newbie who needs to ask, will have the ~10% chance you mentioned, and at the same time the ~100% severity. That's why it matches. You call it coincidence, I call it wisdom and foresight on the part of the person who came up with that rule of thumb. He gave the right answer to the right person.
It is better foresight and wisdom to give him a rule that doesn't depend on guessing his crit chance and crit severity and still works when he acquires better equipment.

Incidentally, I have read your posts across several threads and replied to several of them. You seem to have some unshakeable belief in this 1:10 rule, and no amount of mathematical argument can convince you otherwise.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,951
# 44
02-26-2014, 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frtoaster View Post
It is better foresight and wisdom to give him a rule that doesn't depend on guessing his crit chance and crit severity and still works when he acquires better equipment.

Incidentally, I have read your posts across several threads and replied to several of them. You seem to have some unshakeable belief in this 1:10 rule, and no amount of mathematical argument can convince you otherwise.
Actually, whilst I respect some people's intention to come up with a simple 'One Rule To Fit Them All,' I rather just hear about the real deal. Because guessing is something I can already do on my own: it's the forum I read to learn what it's really all about.

So, I have full confidence in you math ppl; and sooner or later you'll find a definitive mixture, and someone will write a calculater for it; and it will be all good (and better than a simple, but not so accurate, 1:10 rule of thumb, is the point).
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,472
# 45
02-26-2014, 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rylanadionysis View Post
Noblet its easy to get to 20+ critH and still be under 100 critD.

Just stack five romulan SROs and some crit hit universal consoles (assim, 0point, etc) with the tier 2 romulan crit passive and youll see a massive crit with very low critD. (on a tac romulan cappy with operative that would come out to 23 percent crit with a severity of only 92)

In fact boffs are usually the first thing the people get, and with their 1:2.5 ratio you will easily see how this occurs.

I dont know why you insist so much on arguing with me, but I am right, and you know I am.

The above captain is going to need either 4E/1L or 3E/2L to hit the sweet spot. In either case, 5 locators would NOT be his optimal DPS.
Reread my post. I specifically addressed the issue of min/maxer with a full set of SROs and every universal console in game available. These people don't need to ask you. Why don't you tell the nonrommies how easy it is to reach 20% chance while somehow below 100% severity?

Anyway, I bolded it for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noblet View Post
Oh wow, seriously? That's what I call lying by math. The calculations are right, but since the starting values are wrong, the result is wrong.

What's with that low 80% severity? With an absolute base of 50%? (The real base in game is higher than that, btw) How often do you hear people having such low severity? News for you, weapon specialization skills add bigger portion severity than chance, and acc overflow adds 1% severity per point. You'll far overshoot that based on skills alone in a ship with no consoles using white non-ap non-dhc weapons that has no modifiers.

What's with that 20% chance? Good luck getting that high chance if you're not a Romulan with a whole bunch of superior operatives. Sure, you hear some non-romulans reaching it these days by filling their boat with every universal console under the sun, but that's after a full set of Locators...


Oh, and the 1:10 rule of thumb doesn't come from CrtH modifier being 2% and CrtD being 20%. It comes from the typical tac newbie asking questions in the academy: He would have crit chance in the high single digits or low teens, and severity already well above 100 based on specialization skill, acc, dhc, ap, and a mix of odd modifiers. It assumes he has no resources, but the right skill set for tac. While making no sense mathematically, this rule of thumb shows wisdom and intention to help by the person who came up with it, and not egoism and intention to deceive, like OP of this thread.

It's on a per weapon modifier basis. If you think the 1:10 comes from CrtD having an extra zero, that's 1:100 for you.

And it doesn't make a 1:5 rule for loc/exp. Exploiters having half the bonus that it's supposed to have merely makes it a bad console. The chumps who end up using [crtH] plus exploiters instead of [crtD] plus locators deserve the nerf they get.

Here:
http://comatoes.github.io/sto-crit-calc/
This is a solid calculator, and illustrates the issue nicely. Look through the options on left hand side. It applies whether you're in the masses or the extreme minority who has a full set of superior operatives. Unlike this thread, the calculator does not deceive, whoever you may be.

/thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
Actually, whilst I respect some people's intention to come up with a simple 'One Rule To Fit Them All,' I rather just hear about the real deal. Because guessing is something I can already do on my own: it's the forum I read to learn what it's really all about.

So, I have full confidence in you math ppl; and sooner or later you'll find a definitive mixture, and someone will write a calculater for it; and it will be all good (and better than a simple, but not so accurate, 1:10 rule of thumb, is the point).
So don't try to set rules. See for yourself:
http://comatoes.github.io/sto-crit-calc/

For the newbies that the 1:10 rule of thumb targets, it leads to the right conclusion until they're proficient enough to do their own calculations, while these other walls of text rules lead them to the wrong conclusion. For its target audience, it's by far the best among all the flawed concepts out there.

Otherwise, there's the calculator, that's based on more walls of text than you can ever bother typing up.
Critical Hit Calculator

Last edited by noblet; 02-26-2014 at 12:59 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,310
# 46
02-26-2014, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by noblet View Post
Reread my post. I specifically addressed the issue of min/maxer with a full set of SROs and every universal console in game available. These people don't need to ask you. Why don't you tell the nonrommies how easy it is to reach 20% chance while somehow below 100% severity?
Challenge accepted, Noblet.

Federation captain

2.5/50
Fleet Avenger with universal slotted tactical

3 embassy SROs

8.5/65

Rom rep tier2 crit

11.5/65

EWS 9 points

13.5/90

Assim/zero/tachy

16.5/105


So without any weapon mods whatsoever we are at 16.5/105

No matter which way you go, which mods or which consoles, that captain is going over 20 percent crit chance. Youre going to have to deal with the 1:5 sooner or later. What is your next move Noblet, because I am enjoying our game. I already know the best configuration, lets see how well your "calculator" plays out this match.
Vice Admiral Rylana - U.S.S. DNT Omega X || Vice Admiral Lyzara - I.R.W. DNT Omicron X
Vice Admiral Kailiana - R.R.W. DNT Theta X || Vice Admiral Talina - I.R.W. DNT Tau X
Vice Admiral Victoria - U.S.S. DNT Upsilon X || Lt. General Dannika - I.K.S. DNT Sigma X
Vice Admiral Shondra - R.R.W. DNT Alpha X || Lt. General Rosanna - I.K.S. DNT Iota X
=== Vice Squad/House of Tlhap-Jen ===

Last edited by rylanadionysis; 02-26-2014 at 01:06 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,666
# 47
02-26-2014, 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
Actually, whilst I respect some people's intention to come up with a simple 'One Rule To Fit Them All,' I rather just hear about the real deal. Because guessing is something I can already do on my own: it's the forum I read to learn what it's really all about.

So, I have full confidence in you math ppl; and sooner or later you'll find a definitive mixture, and someone will write a calculater for it; and it will be all good (and better than a simple, but not so accurate, 1:10 rule of thumb, is the point).
There is a calculator. It was mentioned by several people already.

http://comatoes.github.io/sto-crit-calc/

The math has been explained in several threads. The latest one, by cerealplayer, is here:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh....php?t=1034191

Here is the original thread by the person who wrote the calculator:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=926211

He originally thought that the optimal ratio was 1:10, but then rewrote the calculator based on feedback from me and several others.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 418
# 48
02-26-2014, 01:24 PM
Why the insistence on pointing to a calculator that calculates acc overflow incorrectly and which inflates the value of acc weapons. Wonder how many times i need to repeat this. If you want to use a calculator at least use one that is accurate like mine. It's fairly basic. But at least it's accurate. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,472
# 49
02-26-2014, 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rylanadionysis View Post
Challenge accepted, Noblet.

Federation captain

2.5/50
Fleet Avenger with universal slotted tactical

3 embassy SROs

8.5/65

Rom rep tier2 crit

11.5/65

EWS 9 points

13.5/90

Assim/zero/tachy

16.5/105


So without any weapon mods whatsoever we are at 16.5/105

No matter which way you go, which mods or which consoles, that captain is going over 20 percent crit chance. Youre going to have to deal with the 1:5 sooner or later. What is your next move Noblet, because I am enjoying our game. I already know the best configuration, lets see how well your "calculator" plays out this match.
See? There we go. Thanks for the hard work.

You just chose a ship with 5 tac consoles, stacked on 3 Superior operatives from the embassy (all tac too, ship's universal boff locked into tac), used reputation power, stacked in all the universal consoles, including a lobi store one that cost 200 lobis. Of course you'd avoid weapons, you won't want that ap or dhc bonus there... After all that, it's still only up to 16.5%. Oh and you couldn't help but have severity already above 100, much less 80, despite how hard you tried to avoid it.

You can go ahead and tell a newbie to get all that just for the privilege of being able to fit exploiters, or...

In other news, calculator:
http://comatoes.github.io/sto-crit-calc/
Critical Hit Calculator

Last edited by noblet; 02-26-2014 at 01:36 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,666
# 50
02-26-2014, 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonsbite View Post
Why the insistence on pointing to a calculator that calculates acc overflow incorrectly and which inflates the value of acc weapons. Wonder how many times i need to repeat this. If you want to use a calculator at least use one that is accurate like mine. It's fairly basic. But at least it's accurate. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0
I honestly haven't bothered to check the accuracy overflow of his calculator. What is his mistake?
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