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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
02-05-2010, 09:03 PM
Don't get me wrong, Chistopher makes some great points, and I should have said that last part a little differently.

one of my favorite things about Guild Wars was that it has High end arenas (Hero's Ascent & Guild vs Guild), low end arenas (random arenas), Practice (Zaishen elite), casual (fort aspenwood and the jade quarry), side vs side (alliance battles) and seasonal arenas (snowball & dragon arena). Winners in higher level arenas got prestigious things such as hero ranks, gold cape trims (which meant alot of bragging rights), gold and cash, and in the beginning of the monthly automated tournament cash rewards. I would love to see similar developments in STO and feel that It would make a great addition to the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
02-05-2010, 09:10 PM
Found the links on the web! huzzah!
Ever wonder why most people are bad?

also: above average players tend to downrate they're own skills compared to below average players that tend to uprate they're skills
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
02-05-2010, 09:20 PM
dueling would be a good idea for this game either in space or on ground. I only been playing this game as long as its been out but by the looks of it klingons and feds dont pvp unless in a instance or something?? if thats the case why not take a page out of hmmmmm i dont know ever so aging WOW and have klingons invade fed territory and vice versa. like klingon players can go into earth spacedock and get some action lol. like a blood elf going into stormwind lol. add this into the game should make everything a lot more fun. i dont know if its in the game now but if not it should be added. whats more fun than ganking? no fun just doing ground missions and players from another faction cant be on the same planet. just an idea
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
02-05-2010, 09:29 PM
I have been slain by your Wall of Text. I bow to your l33t pvpness.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
02-05-2010, 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Lloyd
A Little League Baseball team will not defeat a Major League Baseball team, ever. Seems reasonable, right?

So what makes you think the novice, below average, average, above average, fair, somewhat good, good, very good, excellent or exceptional STO PvP players stand any chance against World Class PvPers?

They have no chance.
I mostly disagree with this, and with the analogy.

Little leagues players are limited by the fact that they are physically children. They can't physically compete with the major league players. Even adult versus adult, major league baseball players represent a lot of physical training that the average person doesn't have.

But when it comes to, say, Star Trek Online PvP, what's really separating a crappy player from an awesome player?

I mean, I think I'm pretty awesome. And there is certainly a mental discipline that helps a person become good at PvP. But I don't think I'm some PvP genius, obtaining strategic heights closed to mere mortals. I think anyone should be able to do as well as I do if they just took the game seriously enough to actually look at the items and stats, look at what's working for other people and just go out there looking to win and kept that up for a week or two. We all start out sucking at the game but a week or two of aiming to win is enough to put you in the big leagues, in my opinion (especially in a game like this that doesn't have a huge dependency on "gear" and other things that can artificially separate you from the "pros")


My guild team has run other teams off of the map. They just quit. We don't even make a point of harassing our opponents, they just declare it's hopeless and give up.

Then, later, a guildmate and I ended up in a 2v5 -- us versus 5 Feds on Ghost Ship. It eventually became a 3v5. I should have noted who the third player was because he was a trooper too. The stupid server crashed when it was 39 vs 38, our favor. Giving up wasn't ever on the table for us. We just did the best we could and it was going well for us because 3 people trying to win is better than 5 people who mostly don't care.


That, I think, is what really separates winners from losers -- not some mysterious skill set, but just wanting to win and making a mental effort towards that goal.


So yeah, I can see creating a league. I can see where that could be good, to go up against even matched teams more often. But it's really a workaround for an underlying problem: too many people out there don't care to get better, quit when the going gets tough, don't see the fun in a challenge, can't see the challenge in a losing scenario and want to play against other lazy quitters like themselves rather than just getting better at the game.


In summary, there are three groups of people:
  • Newbies
  • Pros
  • Quitters

Everyone starts off as a newbie. In a game like this, where you go from there is up to you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
02-05-2010, 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nataenelas View Post
I have been slain by your Wall of Text. I bow to your l33t pvpness.
Nah, I'm actually pretty bad in PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
02-05-2010, 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamz
...there is certainly a mental discipline that helps a person become good at PvP. But I don't think I'm some PvP genius, obtaining strategic heights closed to mere mortals. I think anyone should be able to do as well as I do if they just took the game seriously enough to actually look at the items and stats, look at what's working for other people and just go out there looking to win and kept that up for a week or two. We all start out sucking at the game but a week or two of aiming to win is enough to put you in the big leagues, in my opinion (especially in a game like this that doesn't have a huge dependency on "gear" and other things that can artificially separate you from the "pros")


...because 3 people trying to win is better than 5 people who mostly don't care.


That, I think, is what really separates winners from losers -- not some mysterious skill set, but just wanting to win and making a mental effort towards that goal.


So yeah, I can see creating a league. I can see where that could be good, to go up against even matched teams more often. But it's really a workaround for an underlying problem: too many people out there don't care to get better, quit when the going gets tough, don't see the fun in a challenge, can't see the challenge in a losing scenario and want to play against other lazy quitters like themselves rather than just getting better at the game.


In summary, there are three groups of people:
  • Newbies
  • Pros
  • Quitters

Everyone starts off as a newbie. In a game like this, where you go from there is up to you.

I mostly agree. But even in, say, MLB, you can see that some players are inherently better than others. They're both in the big leagues, but would you rather have Bucky Dent, or Alex Rodriguez? Some players are just stronger and faster than others.

In poker there are great players who have tremendous recall. They also have the ability to allow their subconscious minds to solve problems for them. They "feel" a player is very strong or very weak, etc. Not always, but sometimes.

It's really their subconscious mind filtering all the available data and providing an answer. Even they don't know how they do it. I see myself doing it on occasion.

In a way it's the same in MMO PvP. If your reflexes are bad, you won't succeed as much as your faster opponent. If you don't think/react as quickly, you will do worse as well.

I agree that giving up (if you want to play) is a horrible option. Certainly I myself get somewhat better in PvP and Poker over time, and in Baseball when I was younger.

Given your psychological state of mind (you're not a quitter) you can't accept that you won't succeed if you try hard enough. I have to say that that is the attitude almost all great players have. It can turn a Single A Baseball player into a Major League player. But there are also levels in MLB.

You are right about attitude, and one should always have that winning attitude. On the other side of the coin if you are wired to react within 3/10ths of a second (normal) you will do better than a player who is wired to react in 3.2/10ths of a second. So there are some physical and mental limitations.

Attitude is something I agree with 100%. If you can make it, you won't make it as far without that attitude. Quitting guarantees you will not succeed, or will not achieve as much as you could have.
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