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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-05-2010, 11:26 AM
when i saw 'rewards and content design influence player expectations' i thought of this

(its a Fed post btw)

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...96#post1911196

so, basically, for Klingons you have a lot of people not bothering to form up-just suicide pvp'ing-just to get to next tier-just to do it again-just to get to endgame-just to fail b/c they never learned teamwork or tactics.

all we have at end game-all we have PERIOD really-is PvP.
apparently, that's all the Federation has, too. we might as well start getting good at it.

as far as 'rewards and content influencing player expectations' i expect endgame content to come-
--after 75% of everyone is at cap, and has started rolling another toon
--and i expect it to be bugged, and not give much in the way of reward.

because, that's what we got now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-05-2010, 01:04 PM
Guys, the computer doesthave to judge one's contribution. Capturing an objective would earn you a PvP point..period...no judgement needed. Healing can give you a PvP point for each 10k or 15k or 25k of cumalitive damage points repaired...no judgement needed. Tractoring a player may not give you points, but if you shoot at him and get credit for the kill(we currently share kills in PvP) you get a PvP point...even if you died in the process. If your side wins a PvP session...there can be PvP points for that...maybe not just 1...but maybe like 3 or 5 points.

All hese points add up until you reach the required points for the mission/quest. Once you reach it you complete the quest and get your reward.

So there is no need ofr a computer to judge...just make certain actions or objectives eligibale for points. So a science vessel who detects a cloaked vessel could get a point, etc, etc. Yu guys are making out to be harder than it is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-05-2010, 01:05 PM
Agree with OP but all the power grinders will be out of my tier in a week (proabably less) so just need to sit back and hope for the best
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-05-2010, 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splutter

Make contribution = time taken, and kick people that are afk.
What makes you thin they are AFK? How do we resolve the suicide grinders? There is no kick mechanic...and even those get exploited.

As long as there are contributions that are viable for all ship types/classes, there is no unfairness for the other classes of ships. If one guy wans to be a milk cow and just sit off in the distance healing wounded friendlies, then so be it. He his supporting his team. If a guy wants to just blow enemies up, so be it, he supporting his team, if someone wats to just detect cloaked ships, or only capture objectives, then so be it...its all viable means of contributing.

Some of these contributionos may be more viable for TDM...some more viable for Capture and Hold or Assualt....it doesnt matter, each player is able to find thier PvP niche and contribute in a way that suites their build.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-05-2010, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baaddare View Post
What it does is punish poor players and also hurts even good players who wind up in PUGS if you change the rewards even more to favor winning.
My proposal provides very little bonus for winning...in fact, it deminishes the importance of winning(sessions or individual engagements) and pust teh emphasis on contributing...regardles of if your side wins or not...regardless of if you get a kill or not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-05-2010, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
What makes you thin they are AFK? How do we resolve the suicide grinders? There is no kick mechanic...and even those get exploited.

As long as there are contributions that are viable for all ship types/classes, there is no unfairness for the other classes of ships. If one guy wans to be a milk cow and just sit off in the distance healing wounded friendlies, then so be it. He his supporting his team. If a guy wants to just blow enemies up, so be it, he supporting his team, if someone wats to just detect cloaked ships, or only capture objectives, then so be it...its all viable means of contributing.

Some of these contributionos may be more viable for TDM...some more viable for Capture and Hold or Assualt....it doesnt matter, each player is able to find thier PvP niche and contribute in a way that suites their build.
That is all that I was trying to state. I don't understand why people are so against this, when they love it when other games do it. Warhammer being a decent one. Their Open Quest system is where I got the idea from, but there are other games similar.

I don't see why everyone is so anti that idea. It allows people to contribute to the team, not leech (like some do now, AFKers), and able to feel like they are actually a part of a team. How else is that Commander supposed to contribute if he specialized in reconnaissance, and be rewarded for it? Answer me that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-05-2010, 01:40 PM
Because people are afraid to have to think...even worse, they are afraid to lose or miss out if they have to think.

So much is their fear if thought, that they totally miss the point when an idea is proposed that requires they think outside the box a little to understand it...ironically, they miss the fact that this idea actually allows one to do what is they are already doing in game as PvP contributors. The only PvP group this idea hurts are PvP AFK/cloak griefers and PvP suicicde grinders/PLers.

People miss that fact that since you canonly have one of a mission at a time(and I assume you cat pick one up in a PvP session), that the top players would still be throttles a bit in thei rgains, because once you achieve the required points for the quest, anything else you do during the match doesnt go toward a new quest requirment. You still have to get out the session and grab a new quest.

Whats important to know is that winning means little to nothing toward acquiring your quest points...only contributing/actually playing in PvP does.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-05-2010, 02:12 PM
Which is why they should factor winning into the equation a lot more heavily, but still count contribution as we are explaining it. I concur entirely with you, and want to have a strategy PvP game where I *GASP* actually have to think about what I am going to do, instead of just button mashing.

I feel that if they cater to the lowest common denominator, that their game will ultimately take on the persona of that group. Mediocre and not standing out. I really enjoy how WAR took Pvp as they attempted to try something different, and it was nice. Yes, the combat game types were the same, but I like how they did the leveling up if you were at the lower end of the tier. I feel that might help with it as well, make it more 'balanced'.

I for one, would purchase a lifetime subscription if they would do something like that. I would love for a dev response, though I know we won't get it. At least we are thinking outside the box, trying to find a way to make this game more fun and immersive than your typical MMO where it is essentially every man for himself.

Ya know? WoW? No healing unless it's the arena. WAR? Good healing because you get points for healing in that game. It increases the EXP gained for yourself through out the match, because you are doing what you have specialized in.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-05-2010, 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
My proposal provides very little bonus for winning...in fact, it deminishes the importance of winning(sessions or individual engagements) and pust teh emphasis on contributing...regardles of if your side wins or not...regardless of if you get a kill or not.
the system already takes into account contributions. the more damage and healing you do the greater the reward you get.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-05-2010, 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baaddare View Post
the system already takes into account contributions. the more damage and healing you do the greater the reward you get.
Thats session rewards...Im talking about PvP quest rewards. Currently a large portion of the PvP quests only require you be present in a PvP session(or a certain number of them) to complete the quest and gain rank/level EXP for the reward.

This quest reward assumes players will actually contribute, instead of requiring they actually contribute. It assumes people wont exploit the system and will instead ply honestly. The sessions themselves reward you for just being there. PLers can then reward theselves with faster rank ups by suiciding during PvP...essential griefing their own side.

We had a guy do it the other day, he said something along the line of, "come on, lets just rush them and die, we can level faster"...we promptly removed him from the team...but nothing could stop him from throwing the match away. The only people of suffered was us...the people trying to play...his "team" mates.
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