Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-16-2010, 01:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windowsmt60 View Post
The Crystalline entity is not a hard mission, unless you get a bunch of knuckleheads who don't read the ops and keep shooting the shards, then you can never get anywhere unless you have more admirals than LT CMD...

Please read this post and act accordingly.
Shooting the shards seems to be largely harmless, aside from the loss of DPS on the main entity. Getting HIT by the shards is far worse.

The problem is, very quickly you're dragging an entire cluster of instant death behind you, and anyone orbitting behind you in in serious danger of getting your crystal hemorrhoids in the face. All it takes is one one to die, and that entire cluster of death descends on the person behind... and then the crystals they were dragging... and so on.

The stategy espoused here DOES work, but it is massively fault-intolerant. One **** up (by a random who hasn't read this thread, or has Zone chat off) and it's right back to the start.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-16-2010, 01:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTurnipKing View Post
Shooting the shards seems to be largely harmless, aside from the loss of DPS on the main entity. Getting HIT by the shards is far worse.
I've done some instance-hopping yesterday and saw a few (well, actually two) different strategies - including one where players shot the shards (even the large fragments that split into smaller ones and fly back to the CE). Funny thing is: Whenever the large shards where shot, they DID split up but the small shards immediately disappeared. As far as I could tell, this did NOT heal the CE.


Quote:
The problem is, very quickly you're dragging an entire cluster of instant death behind you. and anyone orbitting behind you in in serious danger of getting your crystal hemorrhoids in the face.
Agreed. I've seen several instances where you couldn't even target the CE because everything was full of shards. One mistake and you're back to 100% health on the CE very quickly.

While I do agree that kiting is ONE strategy that can work, I don't think it is the BEST because it's rather risky. I've seen one instance where there where almost no shards around, and the entity was still down to 30% and less. Should probably have stopped hoping at this point - BTW, how do you see your current instance #?? Wasn't there supposed to be a popup if you hover over the title above minimap?

Anyway, to overcome the problem of coordinating that many (20) people without adequate grouping / chat options, I'd very much like to try a different strategy: Form 4 teams where 1 member targets the CE from about 9km away and everyone else in that team is following him but only shooting shards. Would be interesting to see if this is enough DPS to bring down the CE and get rid of all the shards. If not, try 2 on CE and 3 shooting shards.

Also I did notice that at least in *some* instances there where strong (about +20 from my point if view, which is Lt.C. 5 or 6, not sure where I stopped yesterday *g*) NPC-ships around. From the one time where I entered an empty instance where ONLY the NPC-ships where around (in Front of the Planet) and the CE was behind the planet I'd guess that in those instances where no NPC ships where involved the fighting just took place in a different area and it might be wise to find the NPC ships and lure the CE there. So maybe there is another strategy: lure the CE to the NPCs, let them shoot the CE and ONLY take care of the shards so that the NPC-Ships are not hit.

Regards,
Rainer

P.S.: I don't say that I KNOW anything about all of this, this is just what I've observed (or think that I have observed) so before you flame away you might just go out and check this out for yourself. Instance-hoping can be interesting, you know
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-16-2010, 01:56 AM
In my experience, you're right. Shooting the crystal shards doesn't seem to produce Small shards that last for any length of time. (That said, I think I was beyond 10km from the entity when I destroyed the Large Fragment - that could have been a factor, and it might well spawn Small Fragments if destroyed closer to the entity)

The only definate time I've seen the small shards spawn is when a large shard collides with a ship. So shooting shards doesn't "hurt", aside from taking damage away from the entity and it apparently has a high natural regeneraion rate as it is. This is why the current general strategy espouses focussing all fire on the entity.

Like you, all I have to go on are personal observations. I do wonder - and this is one possible interpretation of the Ops text - is whether the Fragments possibly contribute to the entitys health regen while they're alive. The more Fragments, the more regen? This would explain why the entity's health goes down early in the fight while there are few fragments, and why it starts to increase at 30% when it starts shooting out more Fragments?

It seems like there might be a balance between focussing your fire on the entity and taking out occasional fragments that would serve to reduce the risks of navigating the entity and reduce it's overall regeneration rate that would compensate for the loss of overall DPS, but the maths is beyond me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-16-2010, 02:12 AM
I have to admit I didnt read the OPS. So i spent about 5 minutes shooting shards and blowing up. Fortunatley I do look at the chat window when its not overflowing with gold spammers. Spent about an hour in that map trying to kill that damm thing but unliike myself about 5 people would not read the ops or listen to any chattters. Have yet to beat that stupid thing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-16-2010, 07:36 AM
One of the problems that I have with this fight is that you need to either re-equip your ship or just not use all your weapons. I totally understand the problem with escorts and this fight. I have a level 11 tactical officer and I would not be very effective without my cannons. But, my main is a science ship that drops mines... except on this fight they heal the entity. I'm sorry but I'm not about to go "buy a cheap phaser array" to fight one boss while leveling.

I say skip this and come back later. Hopefully Cryptic has a way to track how many times each fleet action is defeated and will realize that this one currently cannot be. And if you beat it while ramming speed worked, you don't count.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-16-2010, 08:00 AM
I found a nice mini-strategy in my Cruiser last night while trying this guy. While orbiting, I'd have my auto-fire arrays pounding away on the CE, but between cooldowns on those, I'd just toss a rear-facing Photon Torpedo into the shards I was kiting. It really helped keep their numbers down, as ~2 torpedoes take out one of them, and the torpedoes tend to splash into a few of them. This would probably work for SVs as well.

Aside from that, the only nerf I'd argue for is perhaps that Large Shards only spawn the first time the CE hits 30%. That way, even moderately organized groups can beat it, it would just take a lot longer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-16-2010, 08:02 AM
agreed ...........
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-16-2010, 09:59 AM
Escorts can make runins and runouts on the CE. The simple solution is to attack at an angle where none are orbiting with shards following, to never get closer than 5 kliks of the CE and to always exit on the side they came in, eg attacking from top getting out from top.
The only drawback is that if you pickup a few shards you need to kill em off before you make your next run.

It worked fine with me and only failed when people would orbit at any hight or anti-clock wise.
The standing still tactic also works but the escort needs to always look at the distance with the CE and keep it at max of 9 kliks, to always lookout for orbiters and shards incoming. This means that an escort will need to relocate frequently.

About large shards. They do brake into smaller shards when crashing into ships or even when being blown up by weapons. The only difference is that when they are blown up they spawn small shards that immediatelly disapear, but I will note that some times when the large shard is blown up these small shards do not disapear and head towards the CE. This could be due to distance as another poster mentioned.

Time for a question. Some people have typed in the ingame chat that using large torps is wrong. Anyone care to explain why, cuz I don't get it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-16-2010, 11:06 AM
i second all motions that speak to the players being the problem with this encounter, not the encounter itself. I had my FIRST try at CE yesterday...and man was it FUN!

it was frustrating because people refused to group, but then also refused to follow directions. In approx 5 mins and NEVER seeing this encouter before, I was able to pick up on the basics of the fight...having it down to 28% after 30 mins of pounding and watching it shoot back to 100% within a minute is disheartening to say the least

people just need to follow direction better...but that could also speak to the need for better raid tools built into the current interface

for fleet action auto grouping...the highest rank player should default to the raid leader, and should be able to have at least 39 other ships auto grouped to his, so that way we can get the same message out to all groups/singles at the same time...not that it will fix the people who just flat out dont like to listen, or those who are purposely griefing the encounter by assisting the CE in healing, but it's a start

DONT NERF THIS FIGHT!! /signed
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-16-2010, 01:24 PM
I think I narrowed it down to an individual priority system to succeed at this encounter:

1. Stay away from Fragments. Nothing good happens from letting them come in contact with your hull. This is especially important in the final phase, because Large Fragments hitting people is what essentially makes this unbeatable. How do you keep this from happening?
a. Everyone rotate around the CE in the same direction.
b. Set your engine power to at least 80.
c. Pay attention. Fragments occasionally will change targets. Be aware.

2. DPS the CE. In my Cruiser, I want to spend as much time broad-siding the CE as I can. Should translate well to a SV, but not sure about Escorts (never played one aside from occasional Klingon PvP fun).

3. This one is well below Priorities 1 & 2, and it is kill fragments. Personally, I did this by simply tossing the occasional rear torpedo, while my arrays were mid-cycle, into the fragments I was kiting. Damaging the shards with non-targetable weapons does nothing bad from what I can tell. Again, not sure how well this will work in an Escort, but I see it being easy in a Cruiser or SV.

How's that look?
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