Nice thread Hus. I actually think it proved my point. 200k ec and 30min on the exchange is far from what it takes to get a basic readiness lvl 50 toon. I'm not even saying that it necessarily should only take 30min. But the time investment to get new players ready has increased lot.
The mirror vo'quv is an excellent (and cheap) cc/healer.
To bad it appears we should include freely available third party programs to all on a budget set-up.
The mirror vo'quv is an excellent (and cheap) cc/healer.
You should take a few min and throw up a build for one.
I know I have used the mirror Vo on a couple of my Klink alts that have mostly been turned into mostly farmers. I have more klingon toons then fed or rom just no reason to really treat them like mains... all the PvP happens on Feds, kerrat is a joke... and first it was Stupid OP Klink uni consoles that helped destroy klinks now it is stupid op fleet wepaons.
Still great farming ship the Mirror Vo.
I know things seem to be flying right now, I don't know it always settles down. This isn't the first manure storm, just the latest. Lets hope Cryptic doesn't see it as a reason to not push PvP... heck for every PvP guy using stupid cheese software I would bet 10,000 zen that there are 10 PvE guys doing the same.
I'm a firm believer that skill always triumph over gear in this game. In my opinion, gear is important maybe 1/3 of the time, but it still doesn't change the fact that 1/3 that time it will be important. I have 2 points I'd like to leave here.
1) People have to be realistic about pvp builds. I think these low cost builds are just a stepping stone, to get you started on pvp and also to give you some survivability. But new players should be advised that at the moment, the power creep is so strong, I find it hard to believe the builds posted in this thread are competitive or that people will remain satisfied with the items' performance on a long term basis. So yeah, reputation gear are practically a necessity due to several reasons. For instance, a regenerative shield that can be obtained from the exchange doesn't compare to the stats I've seen on the dyson shield. The later is very good at surviving vape (very annoying actually). Better yet aegis set isn't as effective or deadly like the 4 part dyson set bonuses (proton barrage, I don't need to say more).
So yeah, pvp is definitely not cheap, you must be willing to invest something of yours (personal time or money etc) down the road to get ahead. But don't despair, at least you have something you can use in the meantime while you wait to get there.
2) I understand the costs posted in this thread seem "low" to 2y+ veterans. And they are. But I remember thinking back in the day that 100k ec was a lot. I fear 10mil builds might be a bit much to casuals players, especially if they're new. I'm not saying that's wrong but this goes back to the point about staying realistic on the costs of pvp builds. There is probably no such thing as a "low cost" pvp build.
STO is the best game ever and the players love it.
I agree with you deokkent, low cost builds don't compare to the fleet and reputation gear most of the experienced PvPers have. My testing in Ker'rat and CnH with MUPE also confirmed that. Sure, I could destroy Mini for some reason (I have a feeling he invested solely in offense), but I couldn't even scratch by myself most of the ships I attacked (however, it was whole other story once phasers kicked out their shields). I simply need fleet and rep gear to compete. Gotta try the upgraded version (distruptor gear)...
As for your point 2, I remember that even more clearly - that's why I aimed at "only" 1M build, as that's the sum fresh lvl50s can rack up in only 3-4 days by simply playing the game. Not to mention, for me 5M is too much even now. Even better, using Foundry farming missions (like Admiral BoBo goes to war), they can get required amount even faster.
I know it feels as a new player coming in that you need to have X or Y or Z to compete.
I really am going to say from experience that it is not true.
Even with all the fleet gear you could want and a fleet ship or lockbox ship the way the game works when people are buffed for defense they will NOT take dmg from you no matter what you do.
This game like any other MMO is more about timing then gear.
Yes we all admit creep has crept into STO and it does make more of a difference then it did 4 years ago. However gear is still not what makes the difference for people. It helps but it won't turn a new player into a pro.
When I have some time tonight... I am going to pick 2 or 3 of my current PvP toons and post there current builds... and then post a cheap version that will be 95% as good... a ship someone could easily run while they spend the 1-3 weeks earning the stuff I have on the Finished build.
There is no magic gear choice that turns you into an Elite player.
I hope you guys know I wasn't trying to belittle your work in this thread in any way.
I can't wait to see Ant's promised builds, I'm curious to know how an up to date build can compare to a "low cost" build as advertised.
STO is the best game ever and the players love it.
So let me stat by saying I have 3 toons that run almost the same setup on a few different ships. This is my fleet escort which I fly because I love it... and because it is almost identical to the bug. (yes yes yes I know everyone is going to say but but 5 tac cosnoles and a bit more hull and bit more turn) Trust me if you haven't flow a fleet escort refit. It FEELS almost the same to the user. It hits pretty much as hard... and honesty it frees you up to run one extra armor on it anyway which in the end I think isn't so bad. My toon with the bug runs one armor instead of 2 and an extra tac console... otherwise I have them setup the exact same.
So what is NOT cheap ... let me list the upgrades. (not counting of course the ship... which is 4 Fleet mods and access to a tier 2(pretty sure) fleet yard.
1) Weapons... I run [acc]x2 [CrtH] Right now (these are not always expensive though... I have snagged these as low as 200k each). I don't think [acc]x3 is worth the EC investment and even though I could afford to buy full sets of [acc]x3 at market price on them I don't bother. I like my [acc]x2 pew guns. (honestly I have sets of [acc] [crtd]x2 on my roms quite on purpose)
2) Doffs... obviously this is the majority of the cost. Fist there is unlocking of the sixth doff slot (150,000 fleet cred). I run 3 Purple Damage control doffs. 2 Purple Conn doffs (attack pattern cool down) and one Purple Matter Anti Matter (aux to damp). The total cost in EC is around 110 million EC I guess on any given day. (however these can all be something to shoot for)
- As was talked about earlier in the thread for a leveling version... I think Omega 3 + Omega 1 and then dropping the Attack Pattern Beta for Rapid fire 1 would be the way to go. Aux to damp I would run without the doff until you can score a cheap one or save the EC. (or try to get a good deal on a blue one on a weekend when the market is moving). Damage control doffs same deal hunt for deals... and you can get away with Blue ones until you can upgrade. The only doff that I would change the build a little bit around would be the Conn doff (Attack Pattern doffs) When you get those you can go back to Rapid Fire 2 x 2 + Omega 3 / Delta 1. (with perfect uptime). This also makes you a great team mate to have around as you can now throw your Tac team at a team mate and allow them to perhaps keep a FAW up 100% for awhile or what have you (or they I guess in this case)
3) Consoles.... Plasmotic Leech. (many PvE people are already going to have this anyway) If they don't this is something to grind EC for. Borg Console(+ Kinetic Cuttung Beam) both Tier 2 Omega rep items not really that hard to grind out if you have not already done so. Tachyo console (this isn't required) again this can be grinded by buying keys with EC or earned Dilithium->Zen->Keys->Lobi. The lobi consoles are cool and nice but not needed long term grind item. Spire tac cosnoles / Embassy Shield heal console / Mine Engi consoles... all grind items. These are just putting in the time. They will take lots of Fleet Cred and a good amount of Dilihtium, all earned by grinding the PvE content.
4) Ship gear. Aegis set... you can see now why I was talking about it in the low cost escort build. Because I find it comparable and preferable myself to the Fleet options. Some people will run Fleet Engines and Deflectors as well... to earn these is again just pounding fleet missions and earning Dilthium every day for awhile. Fleet Shield. Resilient [resb] [adapt] is pretty standard in PvP these days, again its just grinding the fleet PvE missions. I have swapped over to Spire Warp Cores on my escorts from the mine ones... [amp] mod is a nice dmg boost... and the Spire resistance to energy drain is great for escorts. (my sci ships I have stuck with mine cores that have better power bonuses)
That pretty much sums up my standard escort build it isn't fancy... I am not trying to vape people with overloads right now or land torps... I have been flying standard pilot heavy builds again. (focusing on staying on target and shooting at the right people). For awhile I was saying all cannons was dead... but with the new spire consoles and cores I have been finding them to be effective again, if you play smart.
Comparing my current standard escort setup to the low(er) cost version I posted first in this thead. I think it is clear how that build morphs into my current one by doing the PvE grinds. Aegis I love so you can have that as soon as you can dump either the EC to a crafter or do the crafting yourself. It does suck not having a fleet shield right away... but that should be your first upgrade. Do fleet shield first then Fleet core... then fleet consoles. (many people run basic mk x fleet cosnoles as well... honestly you can go mk x engi and sci fleet consoles at a fraction of the grind cost and really not give up much) After that grind out the marks for the fleet dmg consoles. As for the doffs... I understand that is the biggest hurdle to a new player on a build like this. There are no free options to grind out the Purple DMG control or the special Attack Pattern doffs (came in the gamma quad pack out of the cardassian lockboxes) or for the Anti Matter (aux to damp doff). Those would be the only things that grinding the game won't earn you directly. However what you want to do is find some ways to grind EC. Star Base 24, Gorn mine Field reward nicely, there are foundry farm missions you can do 1-2 times a day for anywhere from 500k-1.5mil EC. If you have a plan of what you want to get though to pick up X or Y Doff or piece of gear it makes it much easier to do what you have to do to save for it I find.
(I posted Tetryon because it is what I am running right now... I find most people have RESB shields so I like to run Tetryons and polarons right now... on one of my toons I know I picked up polaron spire consoles instead) Really the weapon type isn't important, you can run what ever you like. I like to run [acc]x2 DHC... and either [acc]x3 turrets... or [acc]x2 Dual proc turrets (like Polarized Disruptors ect)
Last edited by antoniosalieri; 03-02-2014 at 10:45 PM.