Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 760
# 21
03-02-2014, 10:59 AM
I blame cryptic. Because Cryptic are Y. And Y = Cryptic.

Cryptic's descriptions of ships, careers, skills and abilities are vaguely accurate at the best of times, and out right lies at other times.

If I ask a new player which career can make the most powerful gravity well they are going to tell me science...

If I ask a new player how many skill points they have in attack patterns they will probably tell me 0, 3, 6, or 9....

If I ask a new player about their build they will start linking items and probably not even mention their bridge officer abilities until I inflict a lecture on them....

If I ask a new player what science ships are best at they some times tell me healing....

The list could go on. If any one reading this doesn't get where I am going with any of the above statements you might want to log into the game and start doing some research....
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,975
# 22
03-02-2014, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
"Hi, my name's Adrian and I want to build a ship. What should I fly?"

How many folks will just ramble off the FotM cookie cutter? How many folks will ask are you looking to PvE, PvP, both? What are you looking to do? Do you fly with other folks? And the oodles upon oodles of other questions that should be asked rather than just spouting off some FotM cookie cutter, eh?
Actually I hate to say it but to my eye anymore 95% of ships are all variations on the same core build concepts with a terrible lack of true variety.

Defensive Trinity of EPtS, TT, and HE forms the survival core of many ships. Sure you can toss in a TSS or Aux2Strut to finish it off but attempting say ignoring TT and EPtS in favor of Aux2Strut and ET to try and hull heal is great until you get smacked with an assimilate ship. Granted I haven't flown that ship since the new EPtX cleanse doff which may work better than the silly TSS doff but now Im rambling the fact of the matter is those 3 abilities are so stupid strong the cost of not having them is very painful and the other defensive abilities are simply icing and don't have much of an effect on the build.

Offensive Primary can be cannons, beams, or torpedoes. And in those cases your best served with Dual Heavies, Arrays, and torpedo boats are semi interesting. Then it's simply a matter of weapon buff ability + attack pattern ability + miscellaneous buffs like DEM or EPtW.

Then you get a choice of a secondary weapon, exotic ability, and that is about it for builds. So in a tac boff heavy ship sure take that beam bank for an overload and if you gots a Lt. Cmdr + Sci slot you might as well grab a good ole gravity well.

Sure you can break the mold but unless your doing premade PvP why bother. Everything is just a slight variation on everything else and their are simply too few options to achieve some semi required elements of an effective starship build unfortunately.

Just my humble opinion.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,224
# 23
03-02-2014, 11:11 AM
Isn't the very definition of a new player...that they're new and have stuff to learn?
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 24
03-02-2014, 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
"Hi, my name's Adrian and I want to build a ship. What should I fly?"

How many folks will just ramble off the FotM cookie cutter? How many folks will ask are you looking to PvE, PvP, both? What are you looking to do? Do you fly with other folks? And the oodles upon oodles of other questions that should be asked rather than just spouting off some FotM cookie cutter, eh?
And how many pessimistic t***s turn round and say "Anything you want, the content is so easy you have to have a death certificate to fail it"?

*tumbleweed*

Ok maybe just me then.
------
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,224
# 25
03-02-2014, 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
And how many pessimistic t***s turn round and say "Anything you want, the content is so easy you have to have a death certificate to fail it"?
Well...it depends.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 291
# 26
03-02-2014, 05:25 PM
Quote:
"Antiproton is garbage because it doesnt come with ACCx3"
wait, someone told you that?

PFFFFFFFF.

i flew with dmgx3 for like..... a year. player accuracy trait is all i needed to score every shot. for so long i didnt think cannons COULD miss. i seriously thought accuracy was a joke for a while till i started serious PVP, then noticed times when a whole volley would miss, but that doesnt mean i need accx3. x2 is plenty.

as for the onmi directional beam with BO thing, yeeaaah i had that too till i took the beam off autofire. it just means you dont spam the space bar right after activating BO.

which i've also heard spamming spacebar is a bad idea, but i dont care i do it anyway cause i'm usually watching my shields not my cannons go pew pew pew.

been using antiproton since before free to play. it. is. awesome.
Timelords Fleet
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,720
# 27
03-02-2014, 05:39 PM
'Cookie-cutter' is just a rather derogatory way of admitting (thru denial) that certain combos simply work better than others. That may annoy some folks -- to the point where they are in denial about it even, and start ridiculing it -- but there it is.

Take Escorts, for instance. With DHC's in the front, it makes sense to use turrets in the back. The OP may be annoyed about the cookie-cutter aspect of it, but it's no less true. Hence the expression, 'Trite and true.'

STO is cookie-cutter in many ways. Someone figured out an ideal BFAW Scimitar, and the rest follows suit; not because they're sheeple per se, but simply because it works. A2B works best with 3 purple Technicians. Again, the OP may be annoyed about that, but it's a proven concept. Could A2B be made to work in another fashion? Sure; I've seen ppl use a single copy of A2B, with a PO ability somewhere in there too, and gotten pretty proficient with their build too. But none of it negates the fact that A2B simply works extremely well with the 3 purple Technicians.

I dunno, it's like ranting at your teacher for explaining Economics to you. He may just be giving you the 'cookie-cutter' version of it ("Buy low, sell high"), but certain Economic princples are pretty well hatched out, and are simply known to work; and the man is right to teach those, is the point.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,224
# 28
03-02-2014, 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
'Cookie-cutter' is just a rather derogatory way of admitting (thru denial) that certain combos simply work better than others. That may annoy some folks -- to the point where they are in denial about it even, and start ridiculing it -- but there it is.

Take Escorts, for instance. With DHC's in the front, it makes sense to use turrets in the back. The OP may be annoyed about the cookie-cutter aspect of it, but it's no less true. Hence the expression, 'Trite and true.'

STO is cookie-cutter in many ways. Someone figured out an ideal BFAW Scimitar, and the rest follows suit; not because they're sheeple per se, but simply because it works. A2B works best with 3 purple Technicians. Again, the OP may be annoyed about that, but it's a proven concept. Could A2B be made to work in another fashion? Sure; I've seen ppl use a single copy of A2B, with a PO ability somewhere in there too, and gotten pretty proficient with their build too. But none of it negates the fact that A2B simply works extremely well with the 3 purple Technicians.

I dunno, it's like ranting at your teacher for explaining Economics to you. He may just be giving you the 'cookie-cutter' version of it ("Buy low, sell high"), but certain Economic princples are pretty well hatched out, and are simply known to work; and the man is right to teach those, is the point.
Invention. Improvement. So many things...come from pushing beyond cookie cutter. Even in Economics...it's growth. Without anybody pushing the boundaries, you're giving into stagnation...
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,720
# 29
03-02-2014, 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Invention. Improvement. So many things...come from pushing beyond cookie cutter. Even in Economics...it's growth. Without anybody pushing the boundaries, you're giving into stagnation...
Yeah; except that the 'cookie-cutter' build is not merely some mainstream lameness, but itself the result of endless invention and improvement.

Invention. Improvement. These things are usually predicated upon the introduction of something new; like a new doff, a new space set bonus. Or a variation to a theme. And then you'll suddenly see things like R-TBR builds, followed by optimized R-TBR builds, followed by what will then be the 'cookie-cutter' R-TBR build... Followed by posters complaining that everyone always says there's only 1 way to do a R-TBR build.

All of this has happened before; and all of this will happen again.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,179
# 30
03-02-2014, 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Invention. Improvement. So many things...come from pushing beyond cookie cutter. Even in Economics...it's growth. Without anybody pushing the boundaries, you're giving into stagnation...
I would also add fun, at least for me. I'm always changing my builds. Sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. Either way, however, I'm having fun
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