Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-05-2010, 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrangian View Post
No, they are not. They are a hybrids because they have flexible BO slots. BoP's have a high enough turn rate that the nerf to cannon range did not hurt them if you want to turn them into a pseudo-Escort. Fed Escrots and Raptors on the other hand got hit hard and are still reeling from it. They've made Escort useless. Why do you think we target them first in PvP? They are the lame duck.
aI woudl suggest you look at their class they are classed as escorts. Which was my point. The raptor can take more damage than a Bop in an all raptor group they work well . In a mixed Bop raptor group they do not as the Bops can take less damage and have to break off sooner thus leavign the raptors to fend for themselves.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-05-2010, 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baaddare View Post
aI woudl suggest you look at their class they are classed as escorts. Which was my point. The raptor can take more damage than a Bop in an all raptor group they work well . In a mixed Bop raptor group they do not as the Bops can take less damage and have to break off sooner thus leavign the raptors to fend for themselves.
Raptors can only take more damage if the BoP is not spec'd with BO's to tank/heal. The Raptor has more hull points and shield yes, but it lacks the BoP's flexibility. The Raptor and the Fed Escort were meant to be glass cannons, but because they lack the turn rate abilities or the flexibility of BoP's they simply are doomed to fail at their job. This is why no one uses the Raptor. and most good Fed groups only have 1 Escort at best with a heavy presence of Cruisers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-05-2010, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrangian View Post
Raptors can only take more damage if the BoP is not spec'd with BO's to tank/heal. The Raptor has more hull points and shield yes, but it lacks the BoP's flexibility. The Raptor and the Fed Escort were meant to be glass cannons, but because they lack the turn rate abilities or the flexibility of BoP's they simply are doomed to fail at their job. This is why no one uses the Raptor. and most good Fed groups only have 1 Escort at best with a heavy presence of Cruisers.
It's not flexibility, they are flying coffins.
- they are so dangerous, that you 'have' to kill them.
- they are so weak defensively, that you WANT to kill them.

If I was a developer:
- decrease 'rapid fire' by halving the duration and/or halving the effect.
- give T1 TAC bo's a defensive ability.
- increase the raptor/escort hull.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-05-2010, 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splutter
It's not flexibility, they are flying coffins.
- they are so dangerous, that you 'have' to kill them.
- they are so weak defensively, that you WANT to kill them.

If I was a developer:
- decrease 'rapid fire' by halving the duration and/or halving the effect.
- give T1 TAC bo's a defensive ability.
- increase the raptor/escort hull.
I fly a BoP I know what they offer and what their weaknesses are. The problem is not rapid fire, if you nerfed rapid fire you would once again hurt the Raptor/Fed Escort.

There are a number of fixes, one would include swapping "ideal" ranges between beams and cannons (which makes the most sense). This would hurt the Cruiser a little, but as it stands right now the cruiser is the best tank and DPSer for the Fed side, which is not what it is supposed to be. Another option would be to boost the turn rate of the Raptor/Fed Escort allowing them some parity with the BoP. The Hull/Shields of the Raptor/Fed Escort might use a little boost, but their job is to be DPSer, any fixes need to address the fact that they cannot currently do their job as well as other ships (BoP for Klinks and Cruiser for Feds).
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-05-2010, 10:29 AM
what would be the point of bop then
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-05-2010, 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madgelo View Post
what would be the point of bop then
The flexible platform. We have no Science ship until T5 and no cruiser (for the time being) until T3. A BoP can be either of these, it can also be a glass cannon or it can be a hybrid.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-05-2010, 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrangian View Post
The flexible platform. We have no Science ship until T5 and no cruiser (for the time being) until T3. A BoP can be either of these, it can also be a glass cannon or it can be a hybrid.
jack of all trades you mean?

no thx
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-05-2010, 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madgelo View Post
jerk of all trades you mean?

no thx
Not at all. In fact it can specialize very well. I've run a T2 BoP with 2 Sci officers and an Engineer very well. I don't do as much DPS as some builds, but I generally have a better kill/death ratio and help ensure victory.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-05-2010, 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrangian View Post
No, they are not. They are a hybrids because they have flexible BO slots. BoP's have a high enough turn rate that the nerf to cannon range did not hurt them if you want to turn them into a pseudo-Escort. Fed Escrots and Raptors on the other hand got hit hard and are still reeling from it. They've made Escort useless. Why do you think we target them first in PvP? They are the lame duck.
Varrangian is exactly right.

The changes to cannons made even the kllingon escorts useless EVEN WITH CLOAK.

Having a dime-sized target zone for weapons means we have to use raptors to keep people in our kill zone.

If you want to fix feds, get canon range un-nerfed ,then your escorts can spread out and be able to bring cannons to bear on targets, rather than having to use the same low dps wide angle weaposn cruisers do.

Blame the fed-only pve oriented beta testers who couldn't even find the balance shield button in pvp, but posted long rants about how bad balance was.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-05-2010, 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrangian View Post
I fly a BoP I know what they offer and what their weaknesses are. The problem is not rapid fire, if you nerfed rapid fire you would once again hurt the Raptor/Fed Escort.

There are a number of fixes, one would include swapping "ideal" ranges between beams and cannons (which makes the most sense). This would hurt the Cruiser a little, but as it stands right now the cruiser is the best tank and DPSer for the Fed side, which is not what it is supposed to be. Another option would be to boost the turn rate of the Raptor/Fed Escort allowing them some parity with the BoP. The Hull/Shields of the Raptor/Fed Escort might use a little boost, but their job is to be DPSer, any fixes need to address the fact that they cannot currently do their job as well as other ships (BoP for Klinks and Cruiser for Feds).
? why shoudl or woudl they want to make the raptor/fed escort turn faster and negate the Bops ability? There is nothing wrong with either ship. Feds escorts are not tanks so yes they die fast when they are focused fired just as the raptor and Bop do. since they increased the damage heavy cannons do but put in the global cool down near the end of beta I do not think they will weaken them again. Decreasign rapid cannon hurts all tac's who use cannons. not just those in Bops. Beams have overload which is one massive burts of damage much greater than a cannon can do.

Raptors are fine as dps ships. When the klingons get their teir 2 cusier the raptors will work well. Till then the issue is they do not mix well with Bop and are stuck as tanks which they are unsuited for.
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