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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I think I might have a way to enhance the contribution benefits and relegate the 'zerging' or 'death runs' that people are referring to in order for their PvP points to go up.... From another thread that is getting lots of attention but no thoughts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zugstum
This really isn't a hard fix or difficulty. Abilities would be assigned a numerical value that would be added to your total that would include damage done, time engaged, damaged received, and healing provide to give a avg. higher placing players would receive a large sum of the pot total and low ranking players less. Players who have a 0 value in any trait receive none. Players who have a say 10 % comparative value would receive non.
You mean... kind of like Warhammer Online has for their Open Quests? They have an algorithm that plays into how much damage you did/took/healed(prevented) and what your role in the group was. I think that that would be nice, and beneficial. It would make it so that you don't get "graded" on dying, instead you would get graded on your overall contribution.

I believe that would work in a game such as this, where you might need to hold a choke point. You would obviously get more points if you figured in not only how much damage the "choke holder" took, but if they were able to successfully stave off the attack until reinforcements arrived. That would be pretty simple to quantify I imagine.

For example:

5 BoP's trying to stealth into a corridor.
[If BoP succeeded in this scenario, let's say 200 points a piece for successful stealth]+[Group bonus for difficulty [75 Points / Starship in formation] = 575 Total per BoP.

Detected by a Reconnaissance Science Vessel
[5 BoP * X [X = 150 Points for every vessel detected]=750 Points for detection].

Assault Cruiser steps in and attempts to delay the units.
[points for damage to units]+[damage taken] + [Time survived(cruiser survives 5 seconds before dying((Perhaps for simplistic's sake... 100 pts / sec) = 500 pts for that delay)] + [flat rate for each unit delayed[Say 50 points] = Time Survived + Time Delayed + Damage Dealt + Damage Taken


For a grand total of:

IF THE BIRDS of PREY GROUP STEALTHED THROUGH SUCCESSFULLY:

Each Bird of Prey = 575 Points for successful stealth past Reconnaissance Science Vessel + whatever points for future engagements/stealths = 2875 TOTAL points for the entire group of BoP's

IF THE BIRDS of PREY WERE DETECTED AND INTERCEPTED:

Reconnaissance Science Vessel = 750 Points for Alerting the Feds of the threat
Assault Cruiser = 750 Points (Time Survived+Time Delayed) + Damage Dealt + Damage Taken

So, what do you say? I know that it is rudimentary, and the numbers would have to be edited to fit the current/future PvP point systems, but they were just place holders for future actual formulas. Do YOU think that would work, and if so, do you think it would be beneficial? It would award everyone for doing their roles. Detection and reconnaissance would get a boost as it would make it a viable (In PvP anyways) build and it might make it more played since it would be awarded.

Please, be critical. Don't worry about bad mouthing it. Let me and Cryptic know what you think. I think that if it got some testing and was implemented properly, it could make PvP more fun and tense in a good way.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-05-2010, 07:59 AM
Well their are problems . First off damage and healing done already effect the rewards. Damage taken would hurt those in escort type ships or players that use hit and run tactics. Really the suicide players are in the minority do we have to alter the game system in a PVE centric game for them?

It is rather funny that I have bene in many a battle at the lower tiers were the FEDs scream about the battles taking to long becasue the klingons are working to actually win the fights. imagine how much longer the fights will be at that lvl if there was a larger incentive for them to win the fight.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-05-2010, 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baaddare View Post
Well their are problems . First off damage and healing done already effect the rewards. Damage taken would hurt those in escort type ships or players that use hit and run tactics. Really the suicide players are in the minority do we have to alter the game system in a PVE centric game for them?

It is rather funny that I have bene in many a battle at the lower tiers were the FEDs scream about the battles taking to long becasue the klingons are working to actually win the fights. imagine how much longer the fights will be at that lvl if there was a larger incentive for them to win the fight.
Fair enough. I am still in the lower tiers myself, so have not experienced the end game content yet. I am going based off of what others have told me from higher conflicts.

If I was misled about the extent to which this happens, than I withdraw my changes. I was just thinking that perhaps if it was happening so often, than it would make the combat (pvp) more strategic and team oriented in my experience, albeit limited at this point in time.

BTW, they wouldn't have to change it across the whole game as it is fairly simple to add a var to the programming stating if it is a PC or a NPC, to load certain damage parameters. I know of many games that do this, GW being one of them, and it works fine there.

The excuse that it would automatically affect the pve is moot with variables and decent programming. It is simple OOP at it's best. Please, provide me with a reference that states that it doesn't happen often enough to justify at least a look into. I have read countless threads from many different individuals stating that it happens quite often. Too often in fact.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-05-2010, 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye.Trizzd
Fair enough. I am still in the lower tiers myself, so have not experienced the end game content yet. I am going based off of what others have told me from higher conflicts.

If I was misled about the extent to which this happens, than I withdraw my changes. I was just thinking that perhaps if it was happening so often, than it would make the combat (pvp) more strategic and team oriented in my experience, albeit limited at this point in time.

BTW, they wouldn't have to change it across the whole game as it is fairly simple to add a var to the programming stating if it is a PC or a NPC, to load certain damage parameters. I know of many games that do this, GW being one of them, and it works fine there.

The excuse that it would automatically affect the pve is moot with variables and decent programming. It is simple OOP at it's best. Please, provide me with a reference that states that it doesn't happen often enough to justify at least a look into. I have read countless threads from many different individuals stating that it happens quite often. Too often in fact.
wel my comment on the PVE centric game was does it really matter that much if some people PL through the game it just in the end ruins it for themselves. Now if we had open PvP it would cause an issue as they tend to resort to ganking lower lvls when they get bored. Perhaps since i tend to run with full house groups I do not see it happening often. I know when i see it it is either a pug or pug group doing it or a group well known for wanting to PL on the klingon side. We have noticed what appears to be a few FED groups doing it that we think are gold farmers trying to get up high fast to farm items for sale though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-05-2010, 09:31 AM
What about an application to the current PVP maps, I don't think there are any that involve holding a choke point. How would skills like cloaking and detecting cloaked ships affect the payout of something like the capture and hold maps?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-05-2010, 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rabbit
What about an application to the current PVP maps, I don't think there are any that involve holding a choke point. How would skills like cloaking and detecting cloaked ships affect the payout of something like the capture and hold maps?
Oh that I would love to see myself even though I fly a Bop. look at how it effects ground combat when you can funnel people into a choke point. I woudl love to see more varitty in the space maps. The mining one is a nice varient just not alot do that one
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-05-2010, 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baaddare View Post
Oh that I would love to see myself even though I fly a Bop. look at how it effects ground combat when you can funnel people into a choke point. I woudl love to see more varitty in the space maps. The mining one is a nice varient just not alot do that one
Okay, maybe the 'choke point' was a bad reference. I forgot to realize that there are no natural choke points in space such as mountains and what not. If you ignore the choke point reference, than it could still work, correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rabbit
What about an application to the current PVP maps, I don't think there are any that involve holding a choke point. How would skills like cloaking and detecting cloaked ships affect the payout of something like the capture and hold maps?
In regards to that, what else can science vessels do? I have never used a science vessel, nor played a science officer, so I honestly do not know. I know that they can perform more than just scans, correct? Wouldn't it stand to reason that the other stuff that they can assist with would receive points to? I can't possibly map out every single scenario in one 1100 character post, but I can give a rough idea of what I was thinking of.

I am not going to apologize for bringing up a possible idea, nor am I going to back down. I am merely stating that their other abilities/skills would be weighted appropriately as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-05-2010, 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye.Trizzd
Okay, maybe the 'choke point' was a bad reference. I forgot to realize that there are no natural choke points in space such as mountains and what not. If you ignore the choke point reference, than it could still work, correct?
Not so much. In capture and hold maps you can't capture or hold while cloaked, so that's kind of the natural prevention to cloaking. In deathmatch maps detecting a cloaked ship typically leads to a kill, so that's its own reward. Right?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-05-2010, 09:52 AM
I understand that you can't capture/hold while cloaked, but you can initiate the attack from cloak which I would imagine would institute a flanking attack, perhaps a higher damage modifier for it not being expected, thus allowing cloaking to be a feasible strategy. Correct?

Quit focusing so much on the exact scenario that I gave and think about how it could make the game more fun, and more strategic. Do you honestly think it would be more fun to not have to think about your group's strategy opposed to theirs? I mean, it could make people actually think about how they are reacting to others and what their actions will affect the outcome of the battle.

It would also give people more of a reason to play defense, and allow the science vessels to actually want to do the job that they are designed for. Reconnaissance and exploration. Isn't that what they're for?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-05-2010, 10:09 AM
I'm trying to think more along the lines of how it would be implemented. What's to stop someone from staying cloaked and just flying around to all the choke points to rack up contribution even though he's not actually contributing to the battle going on? That's just an example based on your example, the fundamental problem is that people will try and get the highest contribution with the least amount of effort, when you start adding in tertiary events that add contribution, people will start exploiting them.
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