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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 163
# 41
03-11-2014, 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by projectfrontier View Post
Yep, here is a snippet of the updated original post that summarizes the proposal:



Updating that took a while, it is busy 'round here.
Awesome, awesome. Amazing job at keeping that OP post tidy.

Just wanted to be sure people didn't think we were competing for changes to the Phaser Lance ability.

(Because there are quite a few suggestions going around on how to do that already.)
Captain
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 688
# 42
03-11-2014, 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by caasicam View Post
Awesome, awesome. Amazing job at keeping that OP post tidy.

Just wanted to be sure people didn't think we were competing for changes to the Phaser Lance ability.

(Because there are quite a few suggestions going around on how to do that already.)
I noticed those threads. I wonder when the moderators are going to move/merge the five+ threads on this topic as they did with what I recall being only 3 threads during the "move/merge of completely disparate discussions into one thread during the backlash over the Galaxy announcements." The thread I started to breakdown what the announcement said about the Dreadnought ended up on page 2.
Proposals for using in-game features to improve: (1) the "Phaser Lance" (and other underrepresented/missing "big guns"); && (2) separation systems on all ships that have them; && (3) training boffs in captain only powers by using boffs as pack-mules; OR to add functionality like: (4) "Away Teams Of Space Ships";

Last edited by projectfrontier; 03-12-2014 at 10:04 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 61
# 43
03-11-2014, 07:31 PM
Fascinating ideas... especially since something like the wing cannons have "flavor" for those who want it and it can be replaced if the player chooses to go a different route. And choices=good.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 163
# 44
03-11-2014, 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alsayyid View Post
Fascinating ideas... especially since something like the wing cannons have "flavor" for those who want it and it can be replaced if the player chooses to go a different route. And choices=good.
Exactly, no one is forcing anyone to actually use the Phaser Lance Weapon, and it would be able to be replaced just as any other weapon can be.

Like you said, just as some people want the Wing Cannons for a more authentic look, they would be able to equip the Lance should they feel the need to.

Even with the second option, no one would be forced to go into the alternate mode and use the Lance Weapon, as the ship would be perfectly fliable in the default.
Captain
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 688
# 45
03-12-2014, 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by caasicam View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by alsayyid View Post
Fascinating ideas... especially since something like the wing cannons have "flavor" for those who want it and it can be replaced if the player chooses to go a different route. And choices=good.
Exactly, no one is forcing anyone to actually use the Phaser Lance Weapon, and it would be able to be replaced just as any other weapon can be.

Like you said, just as some people want the Wing Cannons for a more authentic look, they would be able to equip the Lance should they feel the need to.

Even with the second option, no one would be forced to go into the alternate mode and use the Lance Weapon, as the ship would be perfectly fliable in the default.

haha, precisely; someone "should" write priority one and get them to ask about this kumari-cannon-modification during an interview - that will get people's attention.
Proposals for using in-game features to improve: (1) the "Phaser Lance" (and other underrepresented/missing "big guns"); && (2) separation systems on all ships that have them; && (3) training boffs in captain only powers by using boffs as pack-mules; OR to add functionality like: (4) "Away Teams Of Space Ships";

Last edited by projectfrontier; 03-12-2014 at 10:03 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 688
# 46
03-12-2014, 10:02 AM
This is interesting, new posts have the signature and old posts do not. Ah, I see what I did there - left something off.
move along, move along.
Proposals for using in-game features to improve: (1) the "Phaser Lance" (and other underrepresented/missing "big guns"); && (2) separation systems on all ships that have them; && (3) training boffs in captain only powers by using boffs as pack-mules; OR to add functionality like: (4) "Away Teams Of Space Ships";
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 759
# 47
03-13-2014, 12:06 PM
If the lance manifests as an equipable weapon, I would like it to be a "Phaser lance beam cannon." And work with both beam and cannon powers, similarly to how the experimental proton weapon does (though that requires set bonuses) so that it isn't a nerf to those who choose to go more beams or more cannons with the limited boff skills.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 163
# 48
03-13-2014, 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathofachilles View Post
If the lance manifests as an equipable weapon, I would like it to be a "Phaser lance beam cannon." And work with both beam and cannon powers, similarly to how the experimental proton weapon does (though that requires set bonuses) so that it isn't a nerf to those who choose to go more beams or more cannons with the limited boff skills.
That is a good idea, the Wing Cannons are already modified by Cannon: Rapid Fire and Scatter Volley anyway.

What if the Lance weapon was modified by Fire At Will and Rapid Fire? Beam: Overloaded would be a bit redundant on the Lance (as it would for all intents and purposes, replace the Phaser Spinal Lance in-built ability), and possibly overpowered considering Dual Beam Banks can be pretty bad with that, and Scatter Volley is a cannon power that would make Fire At Will redundant.

With Fire At Will, the Lance could simply AoE auto-target like other beam weapons, though only firing one beam at once instead of two. With Rapid Fire, it could increase the Lance's RoF/DPS while applying the Damage Per Hit debuff that normal cannons get while using that ability.

Last edited by caasicam; 03-13-2014 at 12:29 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,229
# 49
03-13-2014, 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by caasicam View Post
The Kumari Wing Cannons deal 1,114.6 base damage per hit every 3 seconds, coming to about 300+ DPS.

Currently, the Phaser Lance deals 9k damage per it's one-two hit every three minutes, which is about 100 DPS. (If both shots hit.)

So, completely unbuffed at 50 weapon power, the Wing Cannons will deal damage equal to the Lance within 48 second, and at the end of the Lance's 3 minute cooldown, the Wing Cannons will have dealt approximately 67,000 damage or a 372% increase in damage.

Moderatly buffed by passive modifiers such as Skills (maxed for energy weapon damage), Weapon power (125), and tactical consoles (3, the number available to the Dread I have now) available to all players, the Wing Cannons get aroud 6,500 damage per hit, and so about 2,200 DSP.

With those same modifiers, I can get the Lance to around 14,000 per hit, and so about 155 DPS.

With these numbers, the Wing Cannons will out damage the Lance within 12 seconds. At three minutes, the Wing Cannons deal 396,000 damage or 1,414% increase over the Lance in similar conditions.

(I have absolutely no idea if my math is correct, feel free to nitpick.)



Now, these numbers mean absolutely nothing to this idea, as I'm comparing an ability to a weapon, though I thought they were intestering.

Funny, by turning the Lance into a copy of the Kumari's Wing Cannons, we're not really asking for a buff of any kind, just an addition to make the idea of the Lance have a viable representation. The Wing Cannons are already balanced out compared to other equippable weapons anyway, and so there wouldn't be any need for testing.

It really seems like just a "Copy-Paste" would be needed.
This will really scare you. While I hadn't really thought that the Klingons had something Comparable to the Lance, the Bortas Disruptor Autocannon is pretty serious, check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8yQZ15Sjw?t=18m42s


Quote:
Originally Posted by projectfrontier View Post

No quarter given then: Bring the footage up and look away as the audio plays. Repeat this action several times. If your conclusions do not change then not only are you effectively arguing "God Gun", you are arguing that Star Trek's production team did a hack-job as in order for you to be correct that is precisely what is required in this case.
We're gonna have to let this one rest though, as I think you're flat out wrong.

I don't want a god gun, but a balanced weapon that actually does what it is shown to do. It shouldn't miss if you're within the extremely narrow firing arc.


Quote:
I have been proposing a "all weapons rapid fire" and a "all weapons scattery volley" in place of the current 6 powers for a while now, it received a lot of jeering from people who arguably did not watch Star Trek.
I feel your pain.

For all the abilities taken from the various games and random one offs that the crews used to survive the day that have shown up in this game, it's rather amazing how little of the actual combat tactics that were used in the show that have shown up here. Focus burn beam attacks, all weapons rapid fire and scatter volley, a single target beam array rapid fire....beam overload going by the sound effect isn't an overload but simply a fully charged shot. Hmm...

Anybody play Fight Night? Phaser fire in the series was kind of like the boxing in the later games. The way you would charge a haymaker (a full array shot) or just throw rapid jabs (simply firing with no charge). Perhaps something for a different iteration.

Quote:
My co-drafter for this Kumari-cannon-to-"lance"-conversion-proposal put the whole "can the phaser shoot me?" in fairly unambiguous terms: The "old style" banks are ball turret analogs of eyes. If they can turn towards a target completely they can "see" it with fire. The "new style" arrays are analogs to framed mirrors. If you can see the surface of the mirror over the frame's edge clearly that part can "see" you with fire.


As for altering the beams coverage - again this is one of those suspension of disbelieve moments otherwise we fall down the slippery slope that ends with other changes, like the Defiant's quads being nearly straight ahead only.
Very true and completely understood.


Quote:
The math seems on course. You should take a look at the Andorian Escort's cannon-power-console - it makes the phaser-lance-toggle look even worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caasicam View Post
Kinda would like to point out to those reading, and/or unsure of exactly what we're proposing here.

The base idea, of having a version of the Phaser Lance as an equippable weapon exactly like the Kumari's Wing Cannons does not require any changes to be made to the ship or the current in-built click-power Phaser Lance.

It would not replace the Phaser Lance, but augment it.]

It does not change, replace, remove, or buff the Phaser Lance we have now, but is pre-balanced and tested addition to a ship to make it far more like the one we saw on-screen.

Now, that's just the base idea, having the tactical mode and such is adding more new tech to this ship.
For those that don't want to use the Lance, would there be the option to remove it altogether and just have the three nacelle look?
Yes I support This

"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 163
# 50
03-13-2014, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captaind3 View Post
This will really scare you. While I hadn't really thought that the Klingons had something Comparable to the Lance, the Bortas Disruptor Autocannon is pretty serious, check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8yQZ15Sjw?t=18m42s
Though I haven't tried it myself, I've been told that the Autocannon is pretty decent. I also think that it would would work perfectly as a "platform" for the Klingon version of the Kumari wing Cannons. Just as the Kumari has the Wing Cannons and the Console Super-Shot-Chargers, the Bortas could easily have a "Big gun" weapon and the current Autocannon as the modifying console.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captaind3 View Post
For those that don't want to use the Lance, would there be the option to remove it altogether and just have the three nacelle look?
The weaponized Lance would be no different from the Kumari's Wing Cannons, which can be used and removed to the player's liking just like any other weapon.

As for the Lance ability, that's a different subject and topic, though I see it either

A, staying as a separate built-in ability (thus no change).

B, becoming a synergized console like the ones available to the Kumari to modify it's Wing Cannons shots.

or C, Becoming an ability granted from a 2-set bonus from equipping the Lance Weapon and the Cloak.


Personally, I'd prefer A, because it simplifies things.

Unless you mean the Lance being removed from the model itself, which I can't see happening if it stays an in-built ability, and because the Kumari's giant cannons stick around whether or not the Wing Cannons themselves are equipped.
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