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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 819
pretty much what title says. In the state they are now, you are gimped by something because let's say it, that tactical ensign is truly facedesk. I have both Fleet Defiant and Fleet MVAE (this one with its C-Store console if it matters), can't say anything about HEC since I don't have it, but still runs the ensign tac.
The Defiant MUST get that ensign uni. It's outclassed by anything now, made of thin paper, somewhat slow compared to what we see out there now (look at T'varo or JHAS how they zip around it). It feels extremely uncomfortable to use. All I need to deliver a big punch are already in Cmdr/LtCmdr slots, what do I need that ensign tac for? I'd rather give it to engineering and get RSP1 for "oh crap!" moments without sacrificing EPtE and the always useful EPtS.
Fleet MVAE kind of same thing. I don't need the ensign tac at all and be forced to run a quantum torpedo with TS:1.

If not to C-Store ones directly, give the Ensign Uni to their fleet counterparts as an upgrade. This way we can have the patrol as engineering focused, Defiant tactical focused, MVAE sci focused. I don't want to run canon ships and be gimped by their performance.

Last edited by riccardo171; 03-09-2014 at 02:56 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,449
# 2
03-09-2014, 03:12 PM
I find it just fine the Fleet Defiant it is one of my best ships other than my Dyson Destroyer.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,317
# 3
03-09-2014, 03:20 PM
How about no?

The MVAE and Defiants have always been doing very well since their introduction, though the overpowered Romulans and their Warbirds have put a damper on it some.

The balanced BOFF setup that YOU want is already there in spades for the Feds: Steamrunner, Patrol Escort, mirror ships, Akira, Saber, etc. The C-Store & Fleet MVAE, Defiants are the extreme Fed Escorts in their layouts and performance, yet play quite differently than the other Escorts that have BOFF layouts that "play it safe."

If making them more "balanced" in their layouts, then remove that 5th TAC Console for something else. Or better yet, skip this trouble already and get a Mirror Patrol Escort, because it seems that's what you really want.

You need to learn how to survive and make the most of the MVAE & Defiants. Fast, furious, aggressive. They give you options that the other "safer" Fed Escorts can't give, but it takes a savvy player to maximize the potential of these ships. Hell, the Fleet & C-Store MVAE with its LtCdr Science station, MV console make it VERY survivable or even more deadly.

Cryptic's Development Philosophy for the KDF & PVP

Last edited by warmaker001b; 03-09-2014 at 03:22 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,552
# 4
03-09-2014, 03:23 PM
Why only Starfleet Escorts? There aren't many other than those. Elachi Escort, Hirogen Escort, the Andorian Escorts if you don't count them as Starfleet(which is a human-based organization), though I assume by "Starfleet" you mean "Federation".

Either way, I disagree. BOFF slots on any ship don't need changing IMO.


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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 185
# 5
03-09-2014, 03:39 PM
Perhaps you should take a look at this?

Really, all there is to say. It's exactly what you're looking for.

G,o have fun. It's an amazing ship that continues to surprise me even though I've been flying it on my main character for ~6 months now.
Career Officer
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 266
# 6
03-09-2014, 03:44 PM
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?...addefiant_6238

I run this on my Defiant for fun, but I know many people use the ensign tactical for nothing other than a romulan boff.

EDIT: on topic, if you're looking for an escort with more survivability, look at the Steamrunner.
One Of Eight: Captain of a 16k DPS Fleet Patrol Escort Refit, U.S.S. Liberator
Sardak: Captain of a 13k DPS Aves Class Science Destroyer, R.R.W. Vathos
Zax Narale: Captain of a 20k DPS Fleet Galaxy X Dreadnought Battlecruiser, U.S.S. Picard's Fist
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 819
# 7
03-09-2014, 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kadams View Post
Perhaps you should take a look at this?

Really, all there is to say. It's exactly what you're looking for.

G,o have fun. It's an amazing ship that continues to surprise me even though I've been flying it on my main character for ~6 months now.
I've been told to give a try to the patrol but still misses the magic 5th tactical slot I do want, and looks creepy
About the Fleet MVAE I run it in perma-beta command and zap around. The +15 turn is great to stay behind uber fast enemies: sometimes it still isn't enough due to faster speeds, but I learnt how to fly it right and keep up the fight by playing with reverse and EPtE. It becomes a matter of outsmarting the enemy. The LtCmdr Sci is perfect under that aspect, stocking up with aux batteries to use alongside HE2 and TSS3. Considering a Shockwave build/ST1 to protect from SNB.

I can't really see how Defiant is good honestly. Near zero healing, the best you can get is EPTS/TSS/HE and shield distro doffs to stay alive. I just crush Defiants nowadays and I'm not inclined in saying all of those captains were bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by warmaker001b View Post
How about no?

The MVAE and Defiants have always been doing very well since their introduction, though the overpowered Romulans and their Warbirds have put a damper on it some.

The balanced BOFF setup that YOU want is already there in spades for the Feds: Steamrunner, Patrol Escort, mirror ships, Akira, Saber, etc. The C-Store & Fleet MVAE, Defiants are the extreme Fed Escorts in their layouts and performance, yet play quite differently than the other Escorts that have BOFF layouts that "play it safe."

If making them more "balanced" in their layouts, then remove that 5th TAC Console for something else. Or better yet, skip this trouble already and get a Mirror Patrol Escort, because it seems that's what you really want.

You need to learn how to survive and make the most of the MVAE & Defiants. Fast, furious, aggressive. They give you options that the other "safer" Fed Escorts can't give, but it takes a savvy player to maximize the potential of these ships. Hell, the Fleet & C-Store MVAE with its LtCdr Science station, MV console make it VERY survivable or even more deadly.
Steamrunner is pricey considering you need the steam pack for it. Patrol is an option but misses the 5th tac I want (and looks weird, but that's just me lol), mirror no frigging way, akira is too slow imho to be an option, You can load danubes... but a FAW will wipe them anyway.

and that's what I use on my Fleet MVAE. Fast, nimble and always moving with LtCmdr fitted for emergency, massive heals. I just... feel that ensign tac to be the endless gimmick that prevents them to be truly capable of giving a run for the money and remove that "damper" they got in these years.


The only kind of ship that can get a dream layout is the JHAS... well that's a different story, it would need a heck of a nerf.

Last edited by riccardo171; 03-09-2014 at 04:16 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,394
# 8
03-09-2014, 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by riccardo171 View Post
pretty much what title says.
Interesting idea, but ...

Quote:
In the state they are now, you are gimped by something
I think you need to provide more compelling analysis that the ships are actually "gimped by something."

Theorycraft is always fun to chat about. But it's very esoteric.

It might be worth providing numbers to strengthen this thread. Demonstrating how the ship is gimped by seeing the numbers.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 819
# 9
03-09-2014, 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
Interesting idea, but ...



I think you need to provide more compelling analysis that the ships are actually "gimped by something."

Theorycraft is always fun to chat about. But it's very esoteric.

It might be worth providing numbers to strengthen this thread. Demonstrating how the ship is gimped by seeing the numbers.
Let's assume I'm flying the MVAE, having finally the ensign uni I want to place in engineering. I don't need to run an aft torpedo that will be barely pointing someone and replace it with another turret, even TB mines to let me dump the TB1, therefore downgrading HE and TSS to 1 and 2 and mount a photonic shockwave/ST1 without giving up much. the extra ensign now given to engineering allows me to slot EPTE and EPTS and adding RSP to keep myself alive in bad moments/sci disable fun.

Now to Defiant. Again, let's assume we gave the ensign to engineering and used the same combination as MVAE. Comm and LtComm may be used with TT1, APD1, CRF2, APO3 and TT1, Dispersal Pattern Beta 1 (to use with TB mines for lol effects), CRF2. You have plenty of tac abilities, you're not forced to use the ensign for tac abilities that at such rank are only for beams/torpedoes.If you still want it for tactical you're free to do so, but I've never ran into a player convinced that it couldn't be used better.

People can obviously toy around other builds, these are two examples I could find for myself.

Last edited by riccardo171; 03-09-2014 at 04:32 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 436
# 10
03-10-2014, 12:32 PM
If there are ships needing attention there are Science vessels and Engineering heavy Cruisers (ya know, that strange ones with 3 tac consoles or less and without an LTC Tac)

So as said in multiple posts above: no, just NO
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