Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 1 The future.
03-10-2014, 05:28 PM
So with the recent changes to the team abilities and proposed changes to elachi weapons, the dyson set, secondary deflectors for science ships, flanking for raiders, comm arrays for cruisers and a revamp of most aspects of the game including sensor analysis it make me wonder.

Where is this going?

Is this where I want it to go?

I can see that there are some much needed changes happening and I agree with the devs on some maybe even most of it needing to change. However sometimes I keep seeing things and thinking it's the symptom being treated and not the cause.

Where is this going?
I kind of agree with Virusdancer that it is going down the road of becoming so easy that you can play it on an iPhone or something. We're increasingly seeing more and more items added as paid for and premium items which allow for bypassing certain limiting factors on the core game.

I mean lets not forget that cool downs exist for a reason. I remember seeing the attack pattern cooldown doff way, way, way back when I was a noob and thinking:

1) It's really powerful.
2) Pay for advantage.

This was all on the back of the JHAS and how much better it was than almost every escort of the time. So this leads me to think this game is just going to get more and more creep which for those that know how the game works will just keep making ludicrously powerful combos and ships and further diminish the content we have.

Is this where I want it to go?
Put simply, not really. I have no problem with a company earning money, non at all. However when a game gets dumbed down so much and watered down with so much creep it gets harder to log in when I can still complete it blind drunk while half asleep.

What would I like to see changed?
Well I'd like there to be more balance between captains and certainly ships being balanced a bit more. I'd love for all captains to have an offensive, defensive and utility/team ability regardless of career but for it to work in different ways. So all captains are balanced and we can finally truly kick the trinity out of the game.

I'd like there to be more of a stacking penalty and much less multiplying of effects from the same character. Right now 5 of anything is just stupidly powerful in PvP and it causes a lot of problems with balance all this without mentioning how laughably bad some abilities are in PvE due to the whole NPC health vs player health issue.

I'd like to see iconic ships be more iconic. By that I mean for them to have more flexible ship layouts with uni Lt.Com and ens universals or a really good passive, always on unique aspect about them which is good in all situations not just at being more tanky cuz lolz cruisers are tanks.

So what do you think?
Where do you think this going?
Is this where you want it to go?
What would you like to see changed?

Edit: As this is my 2000th post it marks my leaving of the forums and most likely the game. I haven't logged in much and no longer feel like wanting to. I got to fly the new Gal-X which was nice but there's no reason to keep playing for me.
------
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.

Last edited by bpharma; 03-11-2014 at 09:05 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 688
# 2
03-10-2014, 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
So what do you think?
Where do you think this going?
Is this where you want it to go?
What would you like to see changed?
It would be nice if Cryptic finished the game instead of leaving it in the perpetual alpha/beta state it is operating under as they find new ways to monetize the various steaming piles they've placed on the obvious Pay-2-Win table it functions on now.

That should address all of your questions.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,724
# 3
03-10-2014, 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
Where do you think this going?
I think it's pretty much in line with what Cryptic has mainly been doing and even telling us they are doing. They're trying to expand the playerbase. There are far more potential casual players than there are non-casual players. So that's the route the game's going.

They may have some pseudo goal in place where they believe they can add more non-casual content down the road, but I believe that by continuing on the path they're on - they're making that more and more unlikely to be possible.

To an extent, we've seen them try to do this - and - the outcry has been pretty rough. Yes, I've had more than a couple of "oh this is cool" moments while they've had stuff for testing on Tribble disappear beneath the cries for nerfs.

I joke about the puppy and iPhone, the toddler and iPad - partially because of some joking done during a podcast about being able to play STO on an iPad. With advances in web technology, more and more it's beginning to feel like this should just be a Facebook or browser game...and that it could even end up being such somewhere down the road. A game launched from Arc and played in an Arc browser...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
Is this where you want it to go?
A series of rambling expletives...no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
What would you like to see changed?
The creation of STO2...Star Trek for the non-uber-casual. Allow STO to continue down its path...those folks deserve a game too. But are we not as much Star Trek fans as the next guy or gal?

Well...

Kirk > Picard > Archer > Janeway > Sisko
TOS > TNG > ENT > VOY > DS9

...as long as that next fan knows what's what.

(As an aside, regarding that little list there...I still maintain that if Sisko had been on VOY and Janeway on DS9, then Archer/ENT would be in last place. I think the captains were miscast for VOY and DS9.)


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer - U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser
U.S.S. Endless, Hazari Destroyer - U.S.S. Deogen, Phantom Intel Escort
U.S.S. Naked Sun, Hirogen Apex Battle Cruiser - U.S.S. K'Dyr, D'Kyr Science Vessel
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 4
03-10-2014, 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
Where do you think this going?
Honestly, I see this game going bad places. The last MMO I played was BSGO. It was very popular for a few years, and that was when things were balanced, and F2P players could keep up with the P2W players. Things were simple but complex, and things weren't super easy.

But then they started to introduce huge levels of powercreep, new things that were not only unnecessary, but actually HURT gameplay, and made it almost a requirement for you to pay money to get anywhere in the game. Long story short, that MMO died about a year ago, going from somewhere around 10 servers that all had relatively large populations (averaging ~1-2k players online at any given time) down to those same 10 servers, but the populations being much lower (averaging 200 players TOPS at any given time).

I see that starting to happen here. P2W stuff is making the game too easy, removing almost ANY challenge (and attempts at introducing challenge result in one of the links in my sig), and the game is getting dumber, easier, and more boring. Granted, since this game is not as PvP oriented, it's easier on newer players, and the content will keep them going for a bit, but basically, once you hit level 50 and finish the "campaign" missions, what is there left? The perpetual grind. And unless you're used to something like that (hell even if you ARE used to it), it gets boring quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
Is this where you want it to go?
Do I really need to answer that based on my previous answer?

Well, I'll give an answer anyways. Cryptic is doing a few things right, but unfortunately it seems (my opinion ONLY) that said things right are getting massively overshadowed by what it's doing WRONG.

Let's look at recent changes. Removal of team cooldowns. It's a good and bad idea. Good because now ships that had survival issues will have fewer of them, but bad, for the same reason. That change was good and bad for both PvP and PvE.

Let's look at another change. Galaxy Revamp. Oh wait, that wasn't a change. That was a farce. My bad.

Let's try again. Hirogen Lockbox. Lots of goodies, lots of things that will shake up PvP. Good job there, that tree did need a little shaking.

But the further back you go, the worse things get it seems. But that's just me talking. I can't speak for the whole community, wouldn't even dare to try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
What would you like to see changed?
I would like the PvE meta-game massively changed up. I am tired of NPCs that the only "challenge" comes from the fact that they have an obscene amount of HP and are capable of one shot kills. I want more NPCs like the updated Undine and Voth. I want NPCs that fight like players, and actually force you to do something other than DPS them to death.

They did great with the Voth. I have never had to actually use tactics against NPCs (other than hell week, which was GLORIOUS), and then I met the Voth. And all of a sudden I find myself needing to use ST, HE, PH. Actual SCIENCE abilities to negate all their debuffs and little nasties. And then the updated Undine? They fly smarter, fight harder, and actually use abilities. They aren't as nasty as those crazy mofos in "Scorpion", but they're an improvement. A step in the right direction.

Basically, I want smarter enemies, tougher enemies (as in REAL toughness, not just artificial OMFGIHAZSOMUCHHPSYOUCAN'TKILLMEHFAST toughness), nastier enemies. More enemies that are total douchebags and *******s like the Voth.


Is that really too much to ask? I want a lot more, but that would be a great start. Oh, and playable Undine ships would be nice too XD.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 5
03-10-2014, 07:21 PM
What would you like to see changed?
I want to see the disparity between the average player build and the top end build reduced. This includes reducing the number of 'false choices' presented to the average player (such as the team cooldown change) and decreasing the quantity of Pay to Win items (leech console, AP Doffs, Etc), and I wouldn't mind seeing a reduction in needlessly complex systems/mechanics.

Where do I think this is going?
I expect to see the addition of complexity to the game systems/mechanics adding more layers to the game with little return. I doubt any true depth will be added by them and it will simply increase, instead of decrease the gap.

For example the EPtX changes of past were an attempt to remove a 'false choice' for the player yet instead it increased the min/max player potential far more than that of the average player thanks to various Doffs. Same with the EPtX cleanse doff adding another P2W angle.

The Sensor Analysis changes sound interesting for about a second. But you already have to choose which boff abilities to bring to the party, need the skill spec and consoles to support them as well. So really what will this additional button to click, this extra layer of complexity, add to science vessels I must ask? Is their a better way to do it that works within the existing layers that would accomplish the same effect? I don't know as we have yet to see them but I doubt it.

What kind of game should STO be?
Easy to learn, difficult to master. I want a game where the casual player can ride with the min/max player. A game where that one newish player in a PvP premade doesn't cause a 15-0 loss. A game where their isn't a DPS channel where the members deal 6x-10x the damage of the average PuG player. 15-10 loss sure. 2x-3x the DPS sure. I want depth yes but I want it to be player skill depth not wallet based.
STO has a diverse group of players with a wide range of expectations and playstyles. To that end the STO team should endeavor to create a variety of content with a diverse set of difficulty levels and challenges. Cake for everyone!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,492
# 6
03-10-2014, 09:09 PM
Where its going:
I wonder if they're trying to intentionally create stratification. When I started playing 2 years ago, the difference in gear between a F2P fresh-50 and the super-veteran wasn't much. They certainly knew more than me about how to best use things, but equipment wise the difference between their MVAE or Excelsor and my free Advanced Escort or Assault Cruiser didn't amount to much. I stuck with it because I could get everything, do everything, and the only real use for money was cosmetic for-fun stuff. If I'd say decided I wanted to be a PVPer back then, what would I really have needed gear-wise besides get a MACO shield and 3 of the 4 Borg pieces (plus a respec token)? If you got lucky with a prototype tech drop, you could do that in an evening.
These days dil-requirements everywhere, rep grinds, fleet gear, lockbox garbage, new ships always just a little bit better than the last new ship, money money money in various disguised forms. The so-lamented casual players can pick up and play the basics, but if they want to be competitive in any form, they have to either open their wallets or grind out the stuff that ultimately someone else opened their wallets for. Looking at any build-help threads or "I'm trying to get this number" almost instantly turns into a big shopping list, as the right pieces of never-cheap gear can turn into outright multipliers of a ship's abilities. Plus as stuff moves ever faster and gets more and more competitive, you either spend the money or get left behind (and in some circles insulted for doing so). That kind of peer pressure and competitiveness is going to move more zen than any sales pitch, and I imagine Cryptic is trying to encourage that attitude more and more with every release and rule adjustment. Anyone can play, but if you don't spend money you'll always be second-class.

What I'd like to see changed/What kind of game:
The opposite of this. I know they won't because it sells stuff, and I expect them to if anything accelerate the trend as much as they can. "Buy stuff or be a loser!" I'd rather see something where weapons use if the last resort (wellllll middle-resort; I like good 'splosions), something character driven, my crew and their personalities, my ship (thats practically a character itself, think Picard and Scotty talking about their Enterprises), my allies and enemies and frienemies (where's my Shran?). Give me a wide-open galaxy where I tell my story and make my choices. I'd point to say Mass Effect, where everyone ultimately follows the same path, but the choices you make along that path make everyone's Commander Shepard their own and no-one elses. I'd also like gear and ship choice not to matter nearly as much as it does, a Gal-R to be just as good as a Scimitar if just through a different approach. The TV shows were always focused more on the people than the hardware, with their own version of Doing The Right Thing, and I'd love to be able to go into a mission with the mindset of "What Would Picard Do?" and that being a valid approach. I know its never going to happen, as it would be ridiculous to program and develop and wouldn't sell much stuff, and that I may as well wish for a unicorn or polite and thoughtful discourse in Zone Chat, but it is what I'd love to see: less guns, less gear, more story.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,587
# 7
03-11-2014, 12:37 AM
At the moment I have only one thought about the future of the game:

The game might continue for awhile, maybe even a long time. But how 'alive' will it truly be?

Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 802
# 8
03-11-2014, 04:00 AM
First, I've not seen any dev proposed changes to elachi weapons and the dyson set, so if someone could direct me to that, it would be much appreciated.

I think the direction the game is heading in is a good one. I think the devs are finally taking a look at skills and trying to make them more intuitive, less confoundingly cross linked, and also, with hawk's recent post in regard to their mind set on the team power change, actually talking to us about what they are doing and why.

I have pvped and pve'd since the team changes, and frankly, I haven't found it nearly as game breaking as I thought it would be. Has it mixed some things up and given some more choices? Yes. has it made everyone unkillable and broken the game? Not that I've seen so far.

I know some were super concerned about kicking subnuke in the nethers, but frankly, even being able to clear subnuke more easily hasn't really declawed it too much because it still leaves one without all the buffs they had two seconds ago, sci team doesn't magically put them all back on, so it still opens a window of opportunity, just not so ridiculously over the top as it used to.

I choose to remain hopeful, that changes coming down the pike will ultimately head in the right direction and fix old broken mechanics.

In regard to what changes I would like to see, rather than re-write/copy and paste my walls of text from Hawk's thread, I'll just include a quote link:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathofachilles View Post
^Click the red dot to link to quote^
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,427
# 9
03-11-2014, 04:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathofachilles View Post
First, I've not seen any dev proposed changes to elachi weapons and the dyson set, so if someone could direct me to that, it would be much appreciated.

Tribble notes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsnapped View Post
[*]Removed the 5 second immunity associated with Elachi Disruptor procs.
  • These weapons no longer cause a lockout period, and can proc as often as other weapons.
[*]Structural Integrity Leech (Solanae Space Set 3-piece Bonus) - Can now trigger once per second, instead of once every 5 seconds.
  • Proc chance increased to 2.5%, up from 1%.
Take it easy!

Ishmael@scurry5: A Nibbling Sci
"Squeak?"
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,724
# 10
03-11-2014, 05:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scurry5 View Post
Tribble notes:
Shhhhhh, I was selectively not complaining about that one! The Solanae Vamp bit.

Yeah, I was complaining about the Elachi one - picturing 4-5 Crescent DHCs with some Polarized Disruptor Turrets...and uh, yeah.

But the Vamp bit, I'm transitioning more and more over into the casual - it's been a steady process over the years that I've joked about - the NASCAR thing, where I just fly around in circles going left around the target and not really paying attention. The Vamp bit would help with that! If Cryptic doesn't want me to think about what I'm doing, I sure as Hell don't want to think about what I'm doing...

...give into their plan. Smile. Hit the Spacebar. Pat yourself on the back. Have fun. It will be okay...they promise.


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer - U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser
U.S.S. Endless, Hazari Destroyer - U.S.S. Deogen, Phantom Intel Escort
U.S.S. Naked Sun, Hirogen Apex Battle Cruiser - U.S.S. K'Dyr, D'Kyr Science Vessel
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