Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-05-2010, 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
Let's see Head start began a week ago . The game actually released on Tuesday and you know all this how ? can you give me the winning lottery numbers for Saturday nights draw ? .
So yeah... headstart a week ago, launch less than a week, players already at level cap and openly complaining of boredom in zone chat... Oh and you can say the 'well the game will be better off without them' argument, though if they all left I think Atari wouldnt agree, as theyre kind of needing the cash right about now.

Yes the game feels rushed, mainly because it was. Yes Cryptic have promised a big content patch for 'around' the 45 day mark, and yes, many will give it time to see how it pans out, id estimate 30 days time more than a few wont renew, and 30 days after that they will either come back or thousands will leave, as its hinging on the patch.

Normally in MMO's game content isnt a massive problem, as long as its playable people will pay to play it to stay with the friends they have made, this game however doesnt promote the usual methods of community, normally guilds (fleets) have some sort of competition to, at the very least compare against eachother, in this game however, theres simply no point in being in a fleet other than to PvP, and with the PvP as just another way to grind and being as meaningless as it is, and players on the other team Zerging to level as soon as they feel they wont win (normally within the first 5 deaths), PvP has lost any challange and become repetitive and boring.

The OP makes vali points as do some others.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-05-2010, 04:01 PM
Sure, the whole layoutt's foundation is not as you speak, so yes, there is a good chance over the 5 year life of this product that your wishes won't come true.... But do remember, this is just a wish list idea that only a portion of the pvp population stands behind with heart. There are many ways to encourage pvp, there are many ways to give pvp.... this game uses it's method of pvp... There are places that it can be tweaked to give it a better "feel", but simply dismissing it because it does not meet your standards of mmo pvp is just rediculous.

That's like me putting my beliefs on my sleeve and saying that this would be a better game if we got rid of all the star trek crap and made it all star wars stuff (which by the way, we should totally do this, it only makes sense. And it is rediculous that Cryptic Studios has already made it clear that this is going to be a Star Trek game and not a Star Wars game.... I mean "come on"! First off, we already know that Star Wars is cooler... ) Ok, sarcastic mode off... think you get the point.

And sure, this game was rushed... made in under two years. Normal MMO's that have "made it" spend at least 3 years in full production. However, this game is fun to many people. I see many of the same faces playing a lot. Everquest 1 was the last "good" game I can remember where somebody hadn't maxxed out the highest level within a week of launch. So, yeah... that argument is weak... there are a lot of accounts that run efficiently and 24 hours a day.

Could this game be better? Sure....

Could it be worse? lol, yup!

Is it fun now? You're still playing it
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-05-2010, 04:01 PM
I do not think we will see any major improvements to PvP in the foreseeable future. Sure they are talking about wanting to do this or that, but letīs face it, they do not have the ressources to do it. They will be busy adding Fed PvE content for the major part of their playerbase, and considering the rate at which Fed players will be burning through content, I am not sure if Cryptic can even meet their demands.

Plus the rumours of a third MMO in the works, it is just not going to happen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-05-2010, 04:03 PM
Instance based combat, and no harsh death penalty are still totally viable for a strategic based conquest type of RvR game play. You just have to use your imagination. Think Enemy Territory. Mind you, there needs to be bigger instances than are currently being used, but even 20vs20 should be viable.

Think of the instances as resource caps. Starfleet and KDF simply cannot afford to send a bazillion ships to one single engagement, so instead you have broad skirmish based battles over a multitude of sectors. You could even deal with reinforcements as a queue system. One guy dies, a new guy gets to enter the instance (after a timer of course to penalize the loss) as reinforcement. This is a death penalty; you can’t fight in that battle anymore, but can go fight anywhere else. Modest attrition. A good group could also hold up against population imbalances because you only ever get to have a maximum number of players at once.

There are lots of ways to make this work. In some ways instances would work, dare I say (feels the “Open PvP” wrath coming) BETTER, since Zerg fests would not be the only way to really win.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-05-2010, 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goulet
Things i would like to see in pvp
A: Open pvp
B: Fleet owned and positioned bases, that can be attacked
C: Sectors of space that are conquerable.

Will it happen? who knows. Theres things that have to be dealt with long before we ever get around to that point, like actual content for lvling.
This is a good start. Additionally you can add control of Frontier sectors add bonuses to the Race that owns it etc. **** ran a solid model on this that has not been matched for its mainsteaming of PvP. Although I do like WoW's PvP zone that allows Racial only access to a top tier dungeon. That could be included in sector control . There are many more ideas to make this appealing to the masses and to enhance not deter from gameplay.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-05-2010, 04:08 PM
I disagree with the 'no possibility of meaning fully pvp' idea in your OP, whilst the instanced nature of the game is in someways a limitation (and in others an advantage) the 20 player pve fleet actions show the massive scale that the game can handle. So in theory a couple of new larger sectors could be opened up without the channeling system with each system being a point of contention - I truly hate to reference Eve online in this, but the idea I have would be to make the already existing home territories locked for pve as I believe they currently are (Empire space) and make the new sectors purely pvp (low sec/0.0 space).

These systems could then be occupied by the KDF or Feds under the guard of the capturing fleet, which inturn could have specialised star bases built within them, like Research, Minining, Manufacturing ( Take Global agenda's AvA principle, then take away the very strict player limitations). These structures could then be used to develop new "Tier 5" pvp specialised gear and ships (more pvp oriented with strong stealth detection as well as resistances than the gear you can already purchase/loot).

E.g
System Name; Example 1
Allegiance; Klingon Empire
Occupying Fleet; Example Fleet Name
Tactical Structure; Manufactoring Plants - Tier 3

Whilst these new territories could be open to attack at anytime, things such as base defenses and strong shielding would mean it would take a sizeable force to destroy and capture a sector giving enough time for the opposing faction to rally and counter attack.

Something like this would be an awesome addition to STO in the future and give it that much more sandbox feel as well as finally immersing the high end pvp players in what they can truly consider to be 'war'.

Just some of my thoughts/ideas and something I don't believe is beyond the technological limits of this games' engine and coding.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-05-2010, 04:11 PM
Open PvP has to be done delecately.. WoW has done this pretty well but its not perfect. Over greifing, camping etc are the quickest ways to watch PvP kill your multimillion dollar investment
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-05-2010, 04:24 PM
I see where a lot of ppl here come from. But to make this abundantly clear:

Star Trek Online is not EvE Online (not yet). Period.

A PvP system like EvE is not possible atm. Sooner or later there will be open-pvp but the game has to go a long road to there.

When I think back on the launch of EvE 2003 and compare it to the launch of STO I have to admit, that STO defnitive did a great job so far. Respect to Cryptic (ok...to be fair....they had ALOT more money to play with in comparison to CCP back on the days.....).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-05-2010, 04:25 PM
um dynaverse worked fine in starfleet command. you had a hex map and you did instanced pvp to control that hex.

sto can do something like nettrek. who ever controls the planets controls the sector.

example: lets say pvp sector alpha has 5 solar systems.

each solar system has 7 planets.

you fight for control of those 7 planets, whoever has the majority owns that solar system.

whoever has the majority of solar systems, owns the sector.

but with instances this creates a problem. because if you go to fight for these planets.....or even the sector......many 'versions' of those solar systems/planets exist. so it would need to be a persistent sector with no instancing, and a persistent system space with no instancing. once your in, your in and everyone else in that system space can be seen. same for the sector.

when sto was being hyped by cryptic they mentioned there would be faction regional pvp type control space game in FAR off reaches of space. they either lied, cut it or didnt have enough time or seriously spun it.

they also said currently for pvp factions fight over resources, but these resources are nothing, theres no pool, theres no gathering r esources, theres no use for resources, so even that is a lie. or spin.

now i see why pvp came late in the 'pr' cycle. it didnt exist. all forms of pvp now are just variations of good old death match.

they need to introduce resource finite stuff for a far off sector. ive always said a good way to introduce ship death to sto for the hard core pvpers and people fighting for territory control pvp in far off sectors is that since your so far from star fleet, you have to build your ships where you are.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-05-2010, 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnek View Post
So yeah... headstart a week ago, launch less than a week, players already at level cap and openly complaining of boredom in zone chat... Oh and you can say the 'well the game will be better off without them' argument, though if they all left I think Atari wouldnt agree, as theyre kind of needing the cash right about now.

Yes the game feels rushed, mainly because it was. Yes Cryptic have promised a big content patch for 'around' the 45 day mark, and yes, many will give it time to see how it pans out, id estimate 30 days time more than a few wont renew, and 30 days after that they will either come back or thousands will leave, as its hinging on the patch.

Normally in MMO's game content isnt a massive problem, as long as its playable people will pay to play it to stay with the friends they have made, this game however doesnt promote the usual methods of community, normally guilds (fleets) have some sort of competition to, at the very least compare against eachother, in this game however, theres simply no point in being in a fleet other than to PvP, and with the PvP as just another way to grind and being as meaningless as it is, and players on the other team Zerging to level as soon as they feel they wont win (normally within the first 5 deaths), PvP has lost any challange and become repetitive and boring.

The OP makes vali points as do some others.
you can also guage th ehuge number of players in sto by checkign out the fleet forums before and after launch, thousands of posts/topics there are hundreds if not thousands of fleets in sto with hundreds and thousands of members, these are long term people. but without something to keep them all together rallying around the game, you are right. they will go and thats alarge chunk of sto base.

i am in a fleet now mainly because its better than the spammy zone chat, tho zone chat is better the further out from the core space you are. but thats all. theres no need to group.
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