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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
For those of you who do not know what a broadside is:

in the "Age of Sail" (16th to 19th centuries) a ship would come loaded fore to aft with cannons facing either port or starboard. Because of the long and thin shape of ships it was the only way to bring many cannons to bear against your target. The firing of all of these cannons is called a broadside.

This translates to Star Trek: Online as having Phaser Beam arrays equipped to Fore and Aft weapon slots. Due to their 250 Degree Firing Arcs there is a 70 Degree overlap on either side of the ship where you can hit a target with both sets of Phasers. You will need at least one EPS Conduit to fire more than 3 Phasers without draining weapon energy over regeneration rate, more depending on the number of phasers you have equipped.

Indulge me for a moment as I go to another topic: the limited arcs in which you can turn up and down. From a realism standpoint it makes no sense in space. You aren't flying an aircraft where if you aim too steep upward you'll stall the engine or too steep downward and go so fast you might burn up or rip your craft apart. You are in space where full 3D movement isn't just possible, it's required (Stars exist above and below each other, not just in a horizontal plane).

From a gameplay perspective it's only in there to keep fights in a mostly 2D plane and keep them "simple" but simply end up adding to complexity and frustration of players since you have to plan your tactics around this limitation. If I can see my enemy directly above me, should I not be able to just aim my ship at him to fire my cannons/torpedos?

Now onto Weapon Arcs. The Firing Arcs are actually cones, so lets say we have a Torpedo Launcher which a 90 degree firing arc. So from the Centre point of the firing arc the Torpedo can be aimed in 45 degrees left or right of it, it can also be fired 45 degrees up or down from it.

This ties in with broadsides with the fact that the 70 degree overlap that is a broadside exists as a band all around you ship (imagine you're flying through the middle of a ring doughnut, all of it would be possible to broadside). So not just left and right but above and below are viable broadside targets.

Lets take a look at a sample scenario: A Klingon Cruiser armed with only Disruptor Beam Arrays in every weapons slot, it flies above it's intended target, an Escort, whilst cloaked. It then decloaks and starts firing a "broadside" from directly above. The typical loadout of an Escort consists of Cannons and Torpedos (perhaps also Dual Beams). Due to the limited turning angle when flying verticly these limited arc weapons will be useless until the Escort has managed to spiral up to the level of the Cruiser (which itself can also still be moving up).

The Escort will only be able to fire back if it has turrets or beam arrays but against a ship armed entirely with beam arrays the few it might possibly have will be easily outmatched.

This tactic is both effective and absurd, in all reality the Escort should be able to turn directly up at the Cruiser and fire it's Cannons and Torpedoes instead of just having to spiral upwards pitifully to get close to the same horizontal plane as the Cruiser (which doesn't strictly exist in space as "horizontal" is relative to the direction you're facing).

There are 2 ways to stomp out this ridiculous tactic:

1. Remove the arbitrary cap on being able to move vertically. This would effectively making the game 3D.

2. Remove the Vertical component from firing arcs so that weapons such as cannons would be able to hit a target as long as it was within the 45 degree horizontal arc displayed when you mouse over the weapon icon. So you could hit a target that was say 5 KM above you that was 70 degrees above the centre of the firing arc. This would effectively make the game more 2D.

I personally would prefer the first option, it just doesn't seem right that whilst charging at an enemy if fly directly up or down I will eventually get to a level where they will not be able to turn any more to fire on me leaving me free to pummel them into submission whilst they try to get to a position where they can

tl:dr

Please either remove the limitations on either flying or firing vertically because right now if I fly above an escort it's like holding a midget back with my arm and kick them in the nuts.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-05-2010, 04:36 PM
Is this post for real?


Why don't we get rid of all weapons while were at it since being able to damage anything must be overpowered.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-05-2010, 04:37 PM
Determining the location and position of your attack is part of winning.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-05-2010, 04:42 PM
So you actually think that being able to fly above enemies and pummel them relentlessly without them being able to physically turn to face that high is fair?

Space is 3D flying above an enemy should be like flying to their right side, they should simply be able to turn and bring their front to face you should they not?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-05-2010, 04:42 PM
I would really like to see the Defiant Fire its Cannons vertically.... we are already pushing the envelop of ST cannon here with Klingon Ships equipping arrays in their Wingtips...

I do not think #2 is a solution here. If you want to fire vertically, use the appropriate weapon, you cannot have everything.

Cannons shoot mainly forward in limited Arcs of fire.

On the other hand I think the angles of ascent and descent could be made wider....maybe with the combination of a auto-ship level feature so that past a certain point in your Pitch your ship rolls automatically so that we do not end up fighting upside down.

That being said, the differences here are there for a reason, what ship you fly and what equipment you put on to it determines the way this ship will be maneuvered.

Assault ships are meant for maneuvers which consist mainly frontal attacks. It is why they have better maneuverability.

if you want a Phaser Platform with arrays it would be more efficient doing so with Cruisers, which use maneuverability tactics consisting of mainly side attacks (broadsides). Since these are less maneuverable they also get better survivability, and it would be inefficient in the long run to use Cannons on them (I know the text says Assault ships are the only ones that can use cannons but it turns out everyone can equip everything they wish), since your slower turn rate would present you with less opportunity to actually fire the cannons at your target.

So yes cannons may have better DPS than Arrays but Arrays get more opportunities to shoot at targets with cruisers and thus you do far more DPS in the end than if you were Equipped with Cannons, unless you have the ship with the better turn rate that can compensate.

And it is the same for both sides.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-05-2010, 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
I would really like to see the Defiant Fire its Cannons vertically.... we are already pushing the envelop of ST cannon here with Klingon Ships equipping arrays in their Wingtips...

I do not think #2 is a solution here. If you want to fire vertically, use the appropriate weapon, you cannot have everything.

Cannons shoot mainly forward in limited Arcs of fire.

On the other hand I think the angles of ascent and descent could be made wider....maybe with the combination of a auto-ship level feature so that past a certain point in your Pitch your ship rolls automatically so that we do not end up fighting upside down.

That being said, the differences here are there for a reason, what ship you fly and what equipment you put on to it determines the way this ship will be maneuvered.

Assault ships are meant for maneuvers which consist mainly frontal attacks. It is why they have better maneuverability.

if you want a Phaser Platform with arrays it would be more efficient doing so with Cruisers, which use maneuverability tactics consisting of mainly side attacks (broadsides). Since these are less maneuverable they also get better survivability, and it would be inefficient in the long run to use Cannons on them (I know the text says Assault ships are the only ones that can use cannons but it turns out everyone can equip everything they wish), since your slower turn rate would present you with less opportunity to actually fire the cannons at your target.

So yes cannons may have better DPS than Arrays but Arrays get more opportunities to shoot at targets with cruisers and thus you do far more DPS in the end than if you were Equipped with Cannons.

And it is the same for both sides.
He means ship aiming vertically , not the cannons , so the front would be pointed towards the target...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-05-2010, 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larhten View Post
He means ship aiming vertically , not the cannons , so the front would be pointed towards the target...

Actually his #2 suggestion is asking for cannons to be able to fire vertically...

Quote:
2. Remove the Vertical component from firing arcs so that weapons such as cannons would be able to hit a target as long as it was within the 45 degree horizontal arc displayed when you mouse over the weapon icon
So in other words, if you are on a defiant and the enemy is above you at 80 degrees he would like the cannons to be able to shoot 80 degrees vertically..instead of him having to maneuver so that the target comes within his firing arc...

I mean...how about a button that auto-explodes the enemy? the game would break without maneuvers, it is a tactical combat system guys...develop some Attack patterns of your own.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-05-2010, 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
Actually his #2 suggestion is asking for cannons to be able to fire vertically...
Which leaves #1 as being the viable solution.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-05-2010, 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Payden
Is this post for real?


Why don't we get rid of all weapons while were at it since being able to damage anything must be overpowered.
I would be OK with allowing PK by ram.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-05-2010, 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
I would really like to see the Defiant Fire its Cannons vertically.... we are already pushing the envelop of ST cannon here with Klingon Ships equipping arrays in their Wingtips...

I do not think #2 is a solution here. If you want to fire vertically, use the appropriate weapon, you cannot have everything.

Cannons shoot mainly forward in limited Arcs of fire.

On the other hand I think the angles of ascent and descent could be made wider....maybe with the combination of a auto-ship level feature so that past a certain point in your Pitch your ship rolls automatically so that we do not end up fighting upside down.

That being said, the differences here are there for a reason, what ship you fly and what equipment you put on to it determines the way this ship will be maneuvered.

Assault ships are meant for maneuvers which consist mainly frontal attacks. It is why they have better maneuverability.

if you want a Phaser Platform with arrays it would be more efficient doing so with Cruisers, which use maneuverability tactics consisting of mainly side attacks (broadsides). Since these are less maneuverable they also get better survivability, and it would be inefficient in the long run to use Cannons on them (I know the text says Assault ships are the only ones that can use cannons but it turns out everyone can equip everything they wish), since your slower turn rate would present you with less opportunity to actually fire the cannons at your target.

So yes cannons may have better DPS than Arrays but Arrays get more opportunities to shoot at targets with cruisers and thus you do far more DPS in the end than if you were Equipped with Cannons, unless you have the ship with the better turn rate that can compensate.

And it is the same for both sides.
Thanks for the constructive reply, I do understand that it would look weird, but you have to argue that the current system of it happen is weird. #2 would make the game alot more like Starfleet Command 3 treating firing arcs as only 2D.

I only really mentioned it as an alternative, as I said I'm greatly in favor of #1. I must admit I would be fine with being able to go fully vertical and being locked there rather than be able to fly upside down or autolevel, it wouldn't be perfect but it would make more sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by typhaon View Post
I would be OK with allowing PK by ram.
Don't encourage the troll please
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