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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
02-08-2010, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat_Machine
I will attempt to educate you.

The feds have an easy strategy which dominates when both sides are playing poorly.

When both sides are playing very well, the matches go down to the wire. Each engagement costs both sides a few ships, and winning requires making sure the other side loses more than you do each time.

Because the KDF has no tanks, they have to rely on opportunity, and learn to get out before they lose too many.

Are you going to deny that?

So if both sides play poorly, feds win. If only klingons play poorly feds win. If both sides play well then feds can still win, and *only* if feds play poorly and klingons play well can klingons win.

I'm pretty sure the meaning of the word "balance" means that it should be balanced to go either way, not for it to go 60-75% feds and 25% klingons (which isn't even near that good in reality today in the game). But you are right. In addition to all the other "easy outs" the feds get, they also have more durable ships. I forgot that.

And really, considering the feds also have so much more content on top of PvP, how is it not a disservice to the Klingon side to leave things unbalanced like this?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
02-08-2010, 01:30 PM
I think T2 is pretty even, I've had matches where we, the federation, almost won and I've had matches where they almost beat us. It depends entirely on getting a team together because there seeoms to be a very consistant 1:1 ratio in this game, if you're alone against two birds you will die, if there's two bops against 3 fed ships they'll die, and so on and so forth.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
02-08-2010, 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
So if both sides play poorly, feds win. If only klingons play poorly feds win. If both sides play well then feds can still win, and *only* if feds play poorly and klingons play well can klingons win.

I'm pretty sure the meaning of the word "balance" means that it should be balanced to go either way, not for it to go 60-75% feds and 25% klingons (which isn't even near that good in reality today in the game). But you are right. In addition to all the other "easy outs" the feds get, they also have more durable ships. I forgot that.

And really, considering the feds also have so much more content on top of PvP, how is it not a disservice to the Klingon side to leave things unbalanced like this?
It comes out to about even if both sides are playing very well. Feds do have an advantage at the moment due to no kdf cruisers though, which is going to change.

Feds do get more durable ships, and you get cloak. Time for you to man up and leverage that advantage. I can do it, you can do it too.

If you won every time, winning wouldn't be very sweet now would it? The best victory comes against an opponent who has the advantage. Dry your tears and face your fears.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
02-08-2010, 01:43 PM
I think the problem is in the PUGs and not the premades.


When each side is a PUG, you have no idea about who else is your teammate. Who is specced for what. If a sci ship will be there for feds. If someone will be running extend shields or if three people will be running it.

Klink pugs have to work together. If they don't, they lose. T2 is there for the Klinks to man up or go home.

Fed pugs don't have to do anything but stay close to each other and hit spacebar. That's all the coordination that's really needed.


Klinks need to coordinate, play smart, and play well in order to win in T2. If each team plays equally well (or equally poorly), the Feds will win. The Klinks have to play better than the Feds to win.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
02-08-2010, 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat_Machine
It comes out to about even if both sides are playing very well. Feds do have an advantage at the moment due to no kdf cruisers though, which is going to change.

Feds do get more durable ships, and you get cloak. Time for you to man up and leverage that advantage. I can do it, you can do it too.

If you won every time, winning wouldn't be very sweet now would it? The best victory comes against an opponent who has the advantage. Dry your tears and face your fears.
I'm sure you feel very manly playing a video game mate. But while you delude yourself with visions of grandeur I'll happily continue to offer my opinion as someone who has actually done video game balancing before For further reference about what the problem is, read again the post directly above this one. The first step to solving the problem is to actually recognise there is one.

And that's really all we're looking for from cryptic: some acknowledgement that there is a problem. Proving anything to you is meaningless in and of itself
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
02-08-2010, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
I'm sure you feel very manly playing a video game mate. But while you delude yourself with visions of grandeur I'll happily continue to offer my opinion as someone who has actually done video game balancing before
Ad hominem with self aggrandizement. That's pretty turdy.

By your own statement then, since you feel that your opinion carries more weight or is more correct because you have done what you think is 'game balancing', if I have more experience with game balance from a design perspective that you would cede the point? (and all future points, because you feel that experience in game design has a bearing on richtitude here).

Shall we trot out credentials then and pointlessly **** joust?

The point I am trying to make is that T2 vs feds isn't pointless at all. In fact, it's probably the MOST fun I have as a KDF vs feds. T1 is heavily kdf slanted, T3 is much closer in balance (arguably well in favor of the kdf, depending on how many cruisers they bring), and T4 is over before you realize what is happening.

T2 is nice paced, and uphill enough that the KDF has to really work together to win. What's not to love about that?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
02-08-2010, 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post
I'm sure you feel very manly playing a video game mate. But while you delude yourself with visions of grandeur I'll happily continue to offer my opinion as someone who has actually done video game balancing before For further reference about what the problem is, read again the post directly above this one. The first step to solving the problem is to actually recognise there is one.
I wouldn't talk bad about meat_machine. Yes he can come across as rude sometimes, but he is one of the most seasoned players I've seen on the forums. He offers tips, hints, advice, and isn't afraid to call you an idiot if you **** him off.

Quote:
Shall we trot out credentials then and pointlessly **** joust?
this quote both proves me point and made me choke on my lunch.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
02-08-2010, 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
I wouldn't talk bad about meat_machine. Yes he can come across as rude sometimes, but he is one of the most seasoned players I've seen on the forums. He offers tips, hints, advice, and isn't afraid to call you an idiot if you **** him off.
My forum join date is misleading. I put off joining the forum as long as possible, until I had to sign up to get into the super sekret IRC to be able to argue with the devs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
02-08-2010, 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
I wouldn't talk bad about meat_machine. Yes he can come across as rude sometimes, but he is one of the most seasoned players I've seen on the forums. He offers tips, hints, advice, and isn't afraid to call you an idiot if you **** him off.
Seasoned? May be he should learn that Fed Cruisers cannot equip cannons, that was mentioned multiple and multiple times in this forum.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
02-08-2010, 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat_Machine
Ad hominem with self aggrandizement. That's pretty turdy.

By your own statement then, since you feel that your opinion carries more weight or is more correct because you have done what you think is 'game balancing', if I have more experience with game balance from a design perspective that you would cede the point? (and all future points, because you feel that experience in game design has a bearing on richtitude here).
No I'd expect you to actually prove your point, which is something you've yet to do. Credentials would at least lend merit to continuing to even listen. Which I'm not even going to bother to do. Someone wake me up if cryptic ever replies to anything on this matter
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