Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 111
02-07-2010, 04:27 AM
Originally Posted by Neekay
"Game experience may change during online play..."

true story
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 112 Interesting Idea
02-07-2010, 04:28 AM
just a point. This game is on the Windows TM microsoft platform.

No software system is complete on this platform. The bussiness apps have to make continuous updates as do most living games. Please understand that MMORPGs are living games. They are SO BIG they can not be contained in one release, at the same time the development of an open platform can not be perfect as the developers and programmers have no way to know everything that you computer is using or doing. To counter this in the computer software and game industry is to have a team to work and test fixes. In this regard Microsoft is the leader, but for the gaming industry in my experience Cryptic is the leader.

At the end of the day we (fan boys) have been awaiting for this game for 4 years and many of us have learned about MMORPGs during this time in order to support the theme we love.

I have been in the OPEN BETA and have seen the involvement of the dev team and I for one am very happy with it.

If you feel cheated then by all means tell them why and work with them to help them understand what Realistic expectation you had.

Thank you
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 113
02-07-2010, 04:32 AM
All these sheep aside OP the only thing you can try if you are serious is to contact a lawyer and ask. They will decide once given information if they can do anything. Be prepared for fees for doing this. Some work pro bono, most do not. Have fun.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 114
02-07-2010, 05:14 AM
Originally Posted by Koldfusion View Post
I played WoW since day one. We couldent play much the first month and a half but most of us also got 30 day EXTRA credits on our accounts. At least the ones who phones up Blizzard.

7 Digit steam account.. Yeah ive been a PC Gamer possibly since you were gleam in your dad's eye.

I DONT MIND DOWNTIMES!! Load issues the first month of an MMO is normal.

But the lack of polish, broken missions that have been broken since we beta tested... The mishandling of retail sales for preorders.

This game COULD BE AWESOME!! And its why i am so vocal about this. Just needed 6 more months in the garage before willingly taking our money
This post made me laugh a bit, given the adverage age of most here (based on the photos thread) appears to be in the region of mid-20 to late-40s based on that alone I'd hazard a guess that majority of people here have been gamers since before the PC even existed.

Hell I'm in my late 20s and PCs were only released to the public sector a few years after I was born, so making the statement that you've been gaming longer than members here were even born for the most part is likely to be quite unlikely.

It'd be like me saying that I've been MMOs since before you were playing video games, I mean it's potencially a true statement given I was playing MUDs back in 1989 over BBS-based Networking... not quite the same as the internet we have today back then you had to physically phone up the server to get updates and it was ridiculously expensive to do so, espcially at 9600 baud. Still point remains I have no idea how old you are and it would be assuming much about you, as well as on the whole be a bit of an egotistical statement believing as it portrays that a) I have more experience with MMOs cause of how early I began playing their pre-cursors and b) that your limited time using them is less valid due to my age.

Still I'm no longer young enough to believe I know everything anymore.

This said let's say for arguments sake that you've been playing games since home computers (given you said PC gamer not Video Gamer, and Consoles were actually released earlier... ahh fond memories of Coleco Vision) then that means you've been playing them since the early 80s.

Still as such, you would've begun your gaming life on essencially a Static System Configuration. Those days were good weren't they? Not just being a gamer, getting a new tape home, waiting 5-15minutes for it to load to memory with the physical audio of the data squealing away in the background knowing that the game you're playing should work flawlessly but also from the developer point of view knowing that the game you've put blood, sweat and tears in to will work exactly the same to for whoever plays it because they're using the exact same hardware.

Now let's leap to current gaming technology.
We have Consoles which still have that original specification of every gamer is using the same hardware, just like when home gaming began... but huh, what's this they now have the ability to patch games after release? I wonder why the silly people at Microsoft and Sony have allowed developers to do this, surely a Console game can't possibly have bugs or errors.

Oh but Jimmy they do, you see Jimmy when a games developer has an idea now he has to get a big group of his friends together to try and make it. Why? Because Jimmy while in the 1980s game characters were hyper-realistic when they were made up of more than 16 pixels and the extend of gameplay boiled down to jumping, shooting, rotating or simply climbing up ladders, gamers over the past 30 years have become ever more increasingly demanding.

If our beloved Pong, Space Invaders, Space Wars or Pacman were to be released today gamers would demand that they be Normal Shaded with Ambient Occulsion, Soft-Particle laced and all in High Definition graphics before they will even think of trying the game out. As for the gameplay, this has become even more demanding as no longer would Pacman be navigating a maze eating pills and avoiding ghosts; instead he'd be fresh out of prison, slapping hookers and stealing cars to get his next big score and get revenge on his rival gang of ghosts.

It's big work making such a game Jimmy, but unfortunately with more friends comes communication programs and the size the project leads Mr Games Developer to not possibly test everything on his own. So this leads to the world of beta testers; but don't be fooled Jimmy, this is a dark underbelly world fully of gamers who don't actually want to help find bugs but just want to play a game before release then complain about it to every other Nerd who will listen always comparing it to games that have taken years to get where they are now; but looking at release through rosey-coloured glasses because nostalgia for something apparently makes people idiots and oblivious... or it could be subliminal messages in the games themselves. Either way it is still just a lie.

So Jimmy have you learnt why developers release patches and why modern computer games are often released as ridiculously buggy and easily exploited on multiplayer causing a disappointing end-game experience on the whole now?

Ok, next week guys we'll cover why Trash Talking on Xbox Live is "da shizznizel ***" but ultimately creating a society of kids you just wanna reach through your TV and slap like their parents should've by letting them play a mature game online.

Until next time kids, and remember Jimmy class action suits are to protect people; and not as your lawyer jas said just for making a quick buck.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 115
02-07-2010, 05:25 AM
Originally Posted by Koldfusion View Post
Is it possible to start a class action law suit?

Maybe if just once gamers stood up for themselves as a whole we could make an example out of one company and scare the rest into only releasing completed products like console games.
I guess your one of those *******s who sue because the coffee was hot and you burnt your tounge.

SUE SUE SUE ... If you don't like the game don't play it ,,, nobody is holding a gun to your head. And don't give me this crap about spending your money to find out it was (in your opinion) a bad game ,,, THERE WAS AN OPEN BETA period.

Lord your people who think your entitled to something need to follow each other off a cliff somewhere.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 116
02-07-2010, 05:31 AM
Originally Posted by tedgp123 View Post
Op. So you seriously think before posting?

As for fanboi's, what do you expect when youa re trolling on the official forums.
You're not smart, you are not unique. You will not be able to pose any form of class action lawsuit.

2/10 for the attempt though.
Actually this guys is wrong.

The action you would have is contract. There is an agreement between you and Cryptic. In some jurisdictions this will extend in relation to the original product (even if you bought it from a retailer) as well as in relation to your subscription agreement.

The question will be what term of the contract they have breached.

I can think of at least two in relation to server downtime. Into the contract there would be implied
a term:

1) That Cryptic will act so at to treat all players equally. This is required to give the contract efficacy for EU customers.

2) That the servers will remain up 24/7 save for reasonable downtime.

It will then be for the individual to prove these have been breached.

Also into every contract with UK customers are the terms

1) The product will be fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality


2) That Cryptic will carry out their services with reasonable care and skill.

Again, it will be for the individual to prove these clauses have been breached.

As you can see, I am not expressing an opinion on whether there has been a breach, merely that its wrong to say there is no cause of action.

PS. I'm a UK Barrister who specialises in Consumer Contract Law. Howevver, I am not holding myself out as providing legal advice to anyone. This is simply a general observation about the law.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 117
02-07-2010, 07:22 AM
Originally Posted by Castor View Post
Even by a game developer or publisher claiming you agree to downtime, bugs, etc, etc the EULA and ToS are not ironclad. More EULA's and ToS's have been deemed worthless is court then have been upheld.

Oh and the bit about game play changing, that is another bogus byline companies use that does not and never will stand up in a court of law. It is too ambiguous to be used as a legal safeguard.

To put it in a way that any young adult or older should grasp you need to view a game as any other product you pay money for. There is a reasonable expectation attached to all products and services in the U.S. When those reasonable expectations are not met and money has changed hands the customer is due relief or remedy to either replace the faulty product or a refund when no replacement can be made. Tort laws cover this but you will never find a lawyer worth a damn or dumb enough to take one persons case to court over $60. If you could find enough people to fill a class action suit that would make it worth their while then you have something but you would only end up getting about 10% of the $60 you would be seeking.

It would be better to simply do a charge back on your credit card and if that is not possible go to your local magistrate court or small claims court and file something for the return of your $60 because of a faulty product and services that do not meet reasonable expectations. And yes both of these avenues work as they have been documented as working in a host of other games.
There are two things to bring up here:
A) perhaps the EULA is not legally binding, I'm no lawyer, I couldn't say, even if it is as solid as a contract, you can still sue if you don't feel the other party has upheld their end of a contract, it'd be up to the courts to decide if they did or not.
B) BUT you have to remember that you do not have a RIGHT to this game, you have the privilege of giving them your money to play this game. You can take them to court, and may even get your money back for the game, and they then do have the right to refuse to EVER take your money again or let you play the game again, whether you think the game's complete to your satisfaction or not. People forget that, just because you can pay for it, the person charging doesn't have to take you money & provide the service.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 118
02-07-2010, 07:23 AM
Originally Posted by Koldfusion View Post
The sad part is people like you an their apathetic attitude has allowed Game Companies to sell poor products a head of time and thus screwing the rest of us over.

STO has made me consider selling off a 7 digit steam account.
go ahead have your lawsuit,, just keep in mine it would end up costing you more money than its worht as the case would likly be thrown out of court... as no mmo is perfect
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