Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 On Premades and PUGs
02-06-2010, 12:21 PM
Edit: If you don't feel like reading the entire wall of text, just read the bolded, underlined, and italicized statement.

I'm a fed in T3 atm and I pvp quite often, always with pugs, because I have yet to find an active fed pvp fleet. Today, I was playing on the king of the hill salvage wreck map, pugging with some fellow feds. We were playing against a group of klingons that executed attacks with pinpoint precision and were rolling us completely. They all had similar names and were extremely well organized, probably because they used voice comms, so it was safe to assume that they were a premade group.

This is an old story, not unique to STO in any way: Premades owning pugs. And there's nothing wrong with that. Good organization, good communication, and good teamwork that come with a good premade should, 99.9% of the time, be able to triumph over a pug that never played together and has, at best, average communication.

But the problem in the situation was simple. The Klingons were completely rolling us and there was little we could do except slow them down a bit. But why bother? Things would only go faster if we simply sat at our spawn, protected by turrets,and let the klinks hold all the points (they were doing so anyway). We couldn't get too many kills because they had excellent mutual support and heals; they were an excellent group. So I explained this to my team, they agreed, and we spent the last three minutes of the game waiting for our xp.

With a minute left in the game the klinks asked us why we stopped fighting, to which we replied that there was no point, we weren't getting kills or holding points, we were just dying. A premade, especially an exceptionally well organized one such as there's, would always roll PUGs like ours. We might as well get it over with as quickly as possible, get our xp, and be on our way because exploding repeatedly without making the enemy explode is simply no fun.

As i said earlier, this phenomenon is not unique to STO, but is endemic to nearly all games where pvp is an option. However there is a simple and elegant solution. Have two sets of PvP queues, one for general pvp where pugs and premades can go at it, and another where only individuals, not groups, can join, a "random team" option if you will. This solution has worked in many games in the past. DotA for ******** 3 had the shuffle players command, Modern Warfare 2 had the "Team Deathmatch" (Pugs and Premades) and "Mercenary Teamdeathmatch" modes which operate exactly as my "general" and "random" pvp queue suggestion.

In every game where this was implemented, it had a positive effect on the game as a whole. Premades fought premades more often providing for more interesting and challenging games that were more fun for all involved. Many pug players still stayed in the regular mode, adding a bit of variety for the premades and the pugs. And, more importantly, PUG players that wanted nothing to do with premades or simply couldn't play with their friends/clan/fleet at the time for whatever reason were able to play with and against other pugs.

IMO, it is a win-win solution for everyone involved. Also, I humbly submit that the pug only or "random" option will directly lead to fewer "NURF X", "BUFF Y", or "Z IS OVERPOWERED" threads.

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-06-2010, 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoOverdose View Post
Have two sets of PvP queues, one for general pvp where pugs and premades can go at it, and another where only individuals, not groups, can join, a "random team" option if you will.
I'm not sure what you mean by 1) 'pugs and premades' and 2) 'random team'.

If you mean, 1) ranked bracketed arenas for premade teams to join as teams, and 2) non-premade arenas for only individuals to join (and be grouped by the game into PUGs), then I understand and agree.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-06-2010, 12:44 PM
Sorry if I was unclear, I meant one queue for premades and pugs, another one for pugs only. So yes, your 1) and 2) options are exactly what I mean.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-06-2010, 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PotatoOverdose View Post
Sorry if I was unclear, I meant one queue for premades and pugs, another one for pugs only. So yes, your 1) and 2) options are exactly what I mean.
Will never happen. Why? Too few people to do one or the other. **** happens. Not like cryptic will come up with a tournament type style anytime soon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-06-2010, 03:08 PM
So instead of talking to your team and coming up with a counter offence you just convinced them all to do an AV and say "Just let them have it?" Ive had pugs that Steamrolled premades with only a minimum of communication, even when its been a bad pug I've been out there busting my butt when everyone is sitting at the spawn point.

Either way just quiting and letting them take things is just poor game play and unbecoming of a federation officer.

However diffrent Q's isnt a totally bad Idea, however there are currently not enough Klingons to do this yet
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-06-2010, 03:49 PM
Maybe bracketed (WOW Arena style) gameplay is the way to go.

Not so much because pugs can't compete, but because I really hate playing with people who suck and don't care and just keep rushing in over and over. I'd swear that mostly happens with Klingons in space and Feds on the ground.


For whatever reason, I feel like most ground combat Klingons usually play to win and are decent players. Space combat Klingons are pants-on-head retarded 9 times out of 10, or AFKers. Feds are the opposite way. If players could develop a ranking, maybe I wouldn't have to play with those idiots anymore.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-06-2010, 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paneth
So instead of talking to your team and coming up with a counter offence you just convinced them all to do an AV and say "Just let them have it?" Ive had pugs that Steamrolled premades with only a minimum of communication, even when its been a bad pug I've been out there busting my butt when everyone is sitting at the spawn point.

Either way just quiting and letting them take things is just poor game play and unbecoming of a federation officer.

However diffrent Q's isnt a totally bad Idea, however there are currently not enough Klingons to do this yet
We had relatively good comms for a pug tbh, their comms were just better. And we decided to sit out the last 3 minutes to speed the whole thing up, so yeah.

I too have had pugs beat pre-mades, but 99% of the time this won't be the case.

Just saying that most multiplayer games no longer force PUGs to play against premade, or at least there's a pug-only option, modern warfare 2 being the most recent example.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:33 PM.