Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,894
# 11
04-03-2014, 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar2009 View Post
Diablo 3 is not a F2P game. You do have to purchase it before you can play the game, hence the available respec system.

STO, on the other hand, has had those respec tokens around since its initial release for Captains who burned through their freebie ones gained upon Rank Advancement (this was when the game was P2P). And the only thing that has changed has been the name of the currency used to get the token.

And it saw far more use back then because you really couldn't go with an even build like you can now. You had to decide which energy, projectile, ship type you wanted to fly. Putting a few points in to everything did more harm than good before the F2P skill change. I think Tactical skills saw the largest changes with the new system we have today.

Besides, 500 Zen is a decent price when compared to similar MMO's for respec'ing your character.
Just that STO charged for respecs long before it went f2p.

And yeah I'd consider that price a bad joke.
I remember stating that back when the prices were changed to the current stat:
They seem to have no idea how to sell stuff. A respec that cost them NOTHING can cost whatever they want.
500 zen? Nobody buys it.
200 zen? 100 zen? something like 80 zen (avoiding the three-digit-price)?
Peiple will be like "well lets try that" and buy them again and again and again... and ultimately pay much more on that.
Thats basic economy.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,323
# 12
04-03-2014, 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revandarklighter View Post
And yeah I'd consider that price a bad joke.
No the bad jokes are the lazy players complaining that they can't afford to "buy" stuff they can get for free by playing a game that's free to play.


Oh what's that I hear? The lazy players say they don't have time to grind for Dil to get the Zen to get free respecs?

If that's true then they don't need any respecs because they also don't have time to test new builds.

If they have time to test builds they have plenty of time to grind Dil to get free respecs.
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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 656
# 13
04-03-2014, 03:23 PM
It's not about being lazy, but thanks for the insult. You're cool.

I already respeced once. I'm not going to bother again. That 500 Zen is a quarter of a new t5 ship. I'm simply saying the price is too high to allow any sort of experimentation. You're entirely reliant on others' experiences and guides when you respec, you can't play around and see how putting two more points into "X" skill affects "Y" ability or anything like that. That's a flawed system that stifles creativity, IMO. Tribble's a workaround, but not a solution.
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Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,009
# 14
04-03-2014, 03:29 PM
IMO skill respecs hurt the game more than it funds it.
It kind of railroads people into finding a build that works and sticking with it, and in effect discourages people from buying new ships.

Now if you could freely respec without extra cost, as you could actually do before STO went Free 2 Play, then people would be much more willing to experiment and invest in a variety of different ships they normally wouldn't even consider in the first place.

If need be make it a gold members perk.
Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,009
# 15
04-03-2014, 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revandarklighter View Post
Just that STO charged for respecs long before it went f2p.

Yes STO did charge for respecs.
But you could also still respec completely for free by earning Merit points, which you were given for virtually every mission.

Kind of sad how a lot of peopl got screwed over big time with the dilithium conversion when STO went free to play.
People who had enough merits for like 10 respecs didn't even get enough dilithium to buy C-Points for even one respec.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,323
# 16
04-03-2014, 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonsbrethren View Post
It's not about being lazy, but thanks for the insult.
You're welcome.

Quote:
You're cool.
Thanks for noticing but that has nothing to do with this thread.

Quote:
I already respeced once. I'm not going to bother again. That 500 Zen is a quarter of a new t5 ship. I'm simply saying the price is too high to allow any sort of experimentation. You're entirely reliant on others' experiences and guides when you respec, you can't play around and see how putting two more points into "X" skill affects "Y" ability or anything like that. That's a flawed system that stifles creativity, IMO. Tribble's a workaround, but not a solution.
Yeah being able to respec for free is entirely too expensive.

And being able to test new builds on the Tribble server for free is entirely too expensive.

Tribble is NOT a work around. It's the TEST SERVER. It's where you go to TEST things. If the devs didn't intend for players to use it for testing we wouldn't have access to it between the times the devs use it for testing new content.

You're just bitter that you can't think of a single rebuttal that refutes the simple fact that respecs can be done for free, and you just choose not to take advantage of them.
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Last edited by sopwithsnipe; 04-03-2014 at 04:18 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,323
# 17
04-03-2014, 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by senatorvreenak View Post
Yes STO did charge for respecs.
But you could also still respec completely for free by earning Merit points, which you were given for virtually every mission.

Kind of sad how a lot of peopl got screwed over big time with the dilithium conversion when STO went free to play.
People who had enough merits for like 10 respecs didn't even get enough dilithium to buy C-Points for even one respec.
Yeah that was messed up.
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Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,150
# 18
04-03-2014, 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sopwithsnipe View Post
Complete and utter BS.

Every single silver player can convert Dil to Zen and get a respec (as well as everything else in the store) without ever spending a dime out of their own pockets.
Which takes over a week a respec if you grind dil to the cap every single day for no other purpose than for dumping it into another one. I guess I didn't think about this from the point of view of players that have maybe only one ship at end game or perhaps one very specific niche of playstyle they're willing to play that sees a respec being necessary only in extremely rare and unusual circumstances. In that regard 500 zen a pop is fair.

But for players such as myself with tons of different ships and ship types, I'm often feeling the itch to fly a different one every other day. The diversity in play styles and ships helps to keep the game feeling fresh without becoming repetitive. I just wish there was something like a "frequent flyer" program for people such as myself that is more economical over the long haul than 500 zen a pop. Because if it were 100 zen a pop, or 150 zen a pop, I would buy them like crazy as I could raise the funds every couple of days. But when they're 500 and I'm looking at over a week each, I buy zero. Instead making do with what I've got. Cryptic would ironically make more off of me with a lower price than with a higher one.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,323
# 19
04-03-2014, 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnikku View Post
Which takes over a week a respec if you grind dil to the cap every single day for no other purpose than for dumping it into another one. I guess I didn't think about this from the point of view of players that have maybe only one ship at end game or perhaps one very specific niche of playstyle they're willing to play that sees a respec being necessary only in extremely rare and unusual circumstances. In that regard 500 zen a pop is fair.
Nothing stopping you from testing builds for free on Tribble.

Quote:
But for players such as myself with tons of different ships and ship types, I'm often feeling the itch to fly a different one every other day
1. So the real problem is that you have issues with instant gratification. I'm sorry but that comes with a price. And if it's true that you want to use different builds every other day you'd still be complaining about the price even if it was lowered because buying respecs that often adds up fast, and even tho you'll deny it, you'd figure if Cryptic caved once they'd do it again if you complained more.

2. You can have multiple characters each with a different build and ship.

Quote:
Cryptic would ironically make more off of me with a lower price than with a higher one.
Apparently Cryptic feels the pittance they'd make off of us if they lowered the price of respecs isn't worth the effort because this isn't the first time someone has come to complain that prices are too high and they can't be bothered to get what they want for free by grinding Dil.
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Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,150
# 20
04-03-2014, 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sopwithsnipe View Post

1. So the real problem is that you have issues with instant gratification. I'm sorry but that comes with a price. And if it's true that you want to use different builds every other day you'd still be complaining about the price even if it was lowered because buying respecs that often adds up fast, and even tho you'll deny it, you'd figure if Cryptic caved once they'd do it again if you complained more.
Not really. That was just a hilarious moment of blatant presumptuousness on your part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sopwithsnipe View Post
2. You can have multiple characters each with a different build and ship.
I guess between that and Tribble there isn't much point in respec tokens at all then. Cryptic will hardly ever sell one with this strategy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sopwithsnipe View Post
Apparently Cryptic feels the pittance they'd make off of us if they lowered the price of respecs isn't worth the effort because this isn't the first time someone has come to complain that prices are too high and they can't be bothered to get what they want for free by grinding Dil.
The concept of charging a little less for such a simple service people could use regularly instead of a much higher price people only use once in a blue moon seems to have gone completely over your head, so I will not attempt to argue that point with you further. But you're wrong about something else, and that is this thinking that Cryptic is so head strong and unreasonable that they would never reevaluate the pricing of any service ever. Do you remember the 2 boff slots you could buy in the C Store forever? Most players weren't willing to pay the steep price Cryptic was asking for at the time and simply made do with the boff slots they were given. Then after enough pleas Cryptic lowered the price to 250 zen. The cost became more in line in what the service was worth and I for one have used the service 3 times since. 250 zen for two more boffs slots is completely fair and all of this "you'd just say they caved and push more" nonsense you've rambled on about has apparently not come to pass.

Even on the subject of respecs though, Cryptic has outright removed the cost of changing traits in the new patch so clearly they are more open to player feedback than you seem to think they are. If you think the cost of a skill point respec is perfect at 500 zen, that is fine in the scope of this discussion. But don't be telling me Cryptic is unwilling to consider and evaluate player feed back on these matters, or any matters within the game. The upcoming removal of several respec tokens in other parts of the game proves otherwise.
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