Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-06-2010, 10:57 PM
This is just ridiculous.
What you have to realize is that everybody will have a different opinion of what star trek is, how it should be, what should be canon and what shouldn't.. They can't please everybody, and to try would just destroy the game.
This is the same concept as the last movie. The director had to make the choice based on his own ideas, not kowtowing to every fanboy, moderate fan, trekker, trekkie, and every other denomination you can think of.

So here are the facts.
1.You are playing the easy levels, the enemies will be easy.
2.The story in the game pits the Federation at war. A live or die era. You will NOT try to negotiate with the enemy Klingon, you will try to kill them.
3. Any enemy force in the game has three birds of prey, one battleship, one cruiser, or one escort (maybe two). The only way you are facing 5:1 odds is if you are playing in a team, or blundering into other enemy teams. So consider that you should usually only be fighting 3 enemies max, which if you watch the series you will notice the Klingons and Romulans have often faced down the Enterprise with multiple ships.. So there's your precious canon for you.
4. This is just a game. I know you feel entitled to be in on the board meetings at cryptic HQ because of your lifetime subscription, but you aren't. You paid for whatever they are delivering. They are now delivering. That's the end of it.
5. How far are you willing to go for canon? You have no problem advocating a ship needing to fight for it's life against one hard foe, but I bet you would cry foul if you needed to go back to spacedock after every hard fight for massive repairs and crewman. Do you want to spend 4 hours to complete one mission for the sake of your immersion? I think that would ruin the game, don't you?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-06-2010, 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamz
A related issue is that ships in this game remain 100% capable until the point where they are destroyed.

In Star Trek (and every other sci-fi show), ships in battle became less capable as they took more damage. Systems weaken and go offline, options become unavailable, etc. Part of why the Federation would cripple a ship rather than destroy it is because they COULD. In this game you can't "cripple" a ship. It's operating at full powerful with all weapons until the moment it explodes.
Actually, this is a great point. This was a feature that was in Starfleet Battles...a truly fantastic Trek-based space battle game. I have to admit there are many times I wished they had modelled their space combat after that game and added the RP aspect to it....but alas...we get what you have pointed out above.

Proletariat: You're just one angry dude. I HAVE faced in excess of 5 ships (according to your own math, you agree with me) as a solo player with no group in sight. I have killed a Negh'Var with a CL without taking any hull damage. Easy or not, it's not right....plain and simple. And yeah...I'd have no problem flying to the nearest Starbase or Outpost to repair....if they added in as many starbases as there's supposed to be.....

Please explain to me how making all of the ships really weak and figuring out how many to load up against a person based on their level helps them get to production quicker than simply assigning a ship with proper specifications at the appropriate level of the player.

And even in war times, the Federation is touchy-feely in that they would take any survivors of a ship as prisoners of war rather than wontonly blowing up their ship just cause it was easier.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-06-2010, 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancebond View Post
You have to remember, it is just a game
Thats not an excuse. Its the devs lack of imagination, underestimating the players, and wish to 'err on the side of caution' thats the problem.
I wholeheartedly agree with the topic post and the other posters.

I dont mind all that much there being combat in the game like described in topic post, what I don't accept is that there is NOTHING else. No diplomacy, no exploration, no detective work for 'what went wrong on this empty space station here'.

Quote:
I remember the galaxy class turnin on a sixpence in the show... Not orbiting a planet just so it could do a 180
Thats because it, like every other starship, can turn on spot using navigational thrusters. However, I think the space combat is ok. Its the 'content' that I have a problem with.

Well, if enough Trekkies that I trust there is an abundance of raise their voices, Cryptic might actually do something about it. Maybe. But sometimes I think they are incapable of thinking outside the box of "how things have been done before in other MMOs".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-07-2010, 01:13 AM
I completely agree with the OP!!!

This 1 verses 6 or more ships of a higher class and winning is really boring. It is ruining the Star Trek theme and feel of the game. Few and more challenging opponents would be a lot more fun! A LOT MORE FUN!!!!

The scaling of combat in this game is simply ridiculous! Just Terrible!!!

Earlier today I was teamed with a friend two lvl's below me and two strangers 10 levels above me! We proceeded to destroy entire battle groups that were +18 to me and +8 to the strangers I was with. Sure we got blown up here and there... but mostly we humiliated the AI opposition.

I really don't want to be in a T3 Ship taking on T4/5 ships that are +10 to +18 for a challenge.

A bit more sticking to the theme of Star Trek would really increase the amount of fun the game is!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-07-2010, 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkon View Post
- I'm a lifetime subscriber. My only stake in this is to make this game more enjoyable. By bringing the game more in line with canon qualities, I think it's quite possible.
- I'm currently at Lt. - Lvl 7. Yes, this means I have a real life.
- Although the game is primarily space combat-based, I would like and anticipate this game will become much more rounded out as it develops, including more storyline/RP
- I am not a powergamer, extremist, or anything like that as proven by the two points above.
- I'm not a whiner
- I'm not a fan of Ship Classes with different levels. Please don't give me this crap about the Negh'Var being an "older" ship that isn't maintained properly by the Klingons. I'm not buying it.
- I know no matter how hard they try, they will never get to a true level of canonness (if that's a word), but I hope they strive to get as close as they can. Yes, I know this is just a game.
- I'm also a lifetime subscriber.
- Only getting a character to level 7 may indeed mean that you have a life, but it also means that you haven't experienced enough of the game yet to give an informed opinion.
- I think we can all agree that adding more content is a good thing.
- I'm not sure why that matters either way, but ok I believe you.
- Good.
- Game mechanic. Newer ships with better technology are better than older obsolete ships. This has to be simulated in some way. It's a game, it has game mechanics.
- How specifically does the game benefit from more emphasis on canon?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkon View Post
1. Klingons consider it an honor to kill an opponent with a more powerful ship and/or when they are outnumbered. They don't gain any honor for killing a weak opponent.
No, but during a time of war there's no dishonor for killing your tiny ship 5 to 1, so they will. They are trying to win this war after all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkon View Post
2. A Klingon BB should make very short work of a Federation CL.
I agree. They have said that they're still making changes/nerfs/balances. Hopefully this will be one of them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkon View Post
3. How come all the ships explode and no one surrenders or retreats?
Because this is an MMO. *sigh* Yes, I hate that too. There should be missions where after destroying an enemy ship the others decide you're too powerful and they run. The game should inform the players that they've won the fight and thus don't have to chase down the enemy ships. They of course are free to do so...


So overall I agree with you Falkon, even if I don't necessarily agree with all of your points.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-07-2010, 02:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamz
A related issue is that ships in this game remain 100% capable until the point where they are destroyed.

In Star Trek (and every other sci-fi show), ships in battle became less capable as they took more damage. Systems weaken and go offline, options become unavailable, etc. Part of why the Federation would cripple a ship rather than destroy it is because they COULD. In this game you can't "cripple" a ship. It's operating at full powerful with all weapons until the moment it explodes.
I thought the same thing last night, it took 3 Negh'Vars about 5 BOPs and a couple of K'Tingas to kill me in my Connie, and I'm ensign 7. After I respawned somebody else joined me and we finished them off nicely.

I was thinking about TWOK and how Khan and clan gave it big time to Kirk and crew, during that battle the Enterprise lost just about every ship system at one time or another. I love the game and have a lifetime sub, but the points raised by the OP or very true and accurate, it's just impossible for one ship to repeatedly take on so many enemy ships and keep winning.

The story of TMP (the book) says how Starfleet where worried that the Enterprise would be destroyed by V`Ger, as the K`Tinga battle cruisers where considered equally powerful.

brams
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-07-2010, 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine_Falcon View Post
- I'm also a lifetime subscriber.
- Only getting a character to level 7 may indeed mean that you have a life, but it also means that you haven't experienced enough of the game yet to give an informed opinion.
- I think we can all agree that adding more content is a good thing.
- I'm not sure why that matters either way, but ok I believe you.
- Good.
- Game mechanic. Newer ships with better technology are better than older obsolete ships. This has to be simulated in some way. It's a game, it has game mechanics.
- How specifically does the game benefit from more emphasis on canon?


No, but during a time of war there's no dishonor for killing your tiny ship 5 to 1, so they will. They are trying to win this war after all.


I agree. They have said that they're still making changes/nerfs/balances. Hopefully this will be one of them.


Because this is an MMO. *sigh* Yes, I hate that too. There should be missions where after destroying an enemy ship the others decide you're too powerful and they run. The game should inform the players that they've won the fight and thus don't have to chase down the enemy ships. They of course are free to do so...


So overall I agree with you Falkon, even if I don't necessarily agree with all of your points.
1. OP only says he is currently Level 7...perhaps he played during OB and came across the problem then, as many other OB testers did.

2. I'd say the game benefits from canon because the 30 - 50 somethings who have a whole load of disposable cash, grew up with and loved all the shows and movies will keep paying their subscriptions because it is deeply immersive and, to them, much more fun. I hate to say this, but it's an obvious answer. That having been said I'd agree that applying it sensibly is a delicate balancing act, and at the moment the game is far from balanced.

3.My own view on the easy/hard thing is to add more ship classes...where are all the frigates and destroyers in the game...ships that are all more fragile than light cruisers...make it optional, so that those that want a harder challenge can start from one of these vessels instead of the light cruiser...the reward: kudos for playing in a more fragile ship, and still managing to beat off those Klingons...

4. Agree with you and the OP...when things go bad what military commander doesn't try to preserve his resources and/or prevent loss of his own crews life, unless there is a speciic cultural or military reason. That having been said...in TOS both the Orions and Romulans refused to surrender....in later series I'm sure we saw more disengagement especially with the disagreements between various Klingon factions in TNG.
At the very least it would be nice to have ships occasionally surrender, or scupper themselves....just for a bit of variation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-07-2010, 03:27 AM
I agree with original post maybe fewer enemy ships and make them a bit tougher. One of the klingon missions is for a solo ship to go destroy 10 federation battle groups. Luckly they just fly around aimlessly so its not to much trouble to find and kill them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-07-2010, 03:54 AM
It's okay guys, I'll call the Pope, he'll sort this all out and pass Star Trek Online into canon law so you can all stop pulling out your neckbeards at this one, and instead use it as a precedent for ragging on the NEXT thing to appear in the Star Trek franchise. Really, guys, grow up. There is a reason why people who aren't you are the ones that are designing games, it's because they don't whinge on over crap like this, which would result in a game that would be poorly designed, not at all fun, but oh-so beholden to your beloved canon, which I'd also like to point out is not officiated by the Pope, or in fact, anyone - there is no central governing body on what "counts" and what does not, just you sitting there running your fingers through your copious amounts of neckhair and deciding what you want to count as "canon" in order to serve your own agenda.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-07-2010, 03:59 AM
Combat gets slightly harder as you rank up, but nothing spectacular, I've only noticed Hirogen taking my shields and hull down a little, but seeing I never used Emergency Power to Shields, or such things, all I have to do now is click them and I'm good.

I believe in a group, the enemies are a little stronger than if you solo, and there are more of them.
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