Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-07-2010, 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
If that was literally true, you'd never see a Tactical Officer in anything but an Escort, never see an Engineer in anything but a Cruiser, etc. But that's not true, I've seen lots of people flying ships not of their class. My Tactical Officer, for example, loves his Cruiser. So you're literally wrong. It seem no one is forcing anyone to fly anything.

What you're arguing is that everyone should be the same. Then what's the point of having three different classes? Just for getting Attack Pattern Alpha, Sensor Scan, etc?
Yep, there are a lots of people who are doing, or I should say trying to mix match profession and ship class. I am one of those myself.
My point is, once people reach higher levels and learning about the restrictions at hand the inevitable consequence will be that everone goes (back) to tactical on escort, eng. on cruiser etc.
I am assuming this because:
With the current system as a mix-match player you will not be able to use any (potential) strength. As a tactical captain on a cruiser you will neither be able to use high-end tactical abilities that you might unlock due to not having high level BO stations and you won't get to use any unlockable high end engineering abilities on your engineering BO stations.

I am in the same boat as you, I am a tactical officer in a cruiser, this is what I wanted to be. But if we are honest, how many of those lots of people that we currently see mix-matching will still love their career+ship combo choices once they realize they can e.g. (as in our example) only use reverse shield polarity II and extend shields II for their two Lt.Cmdr engineering BO abilities (there by having NO variety at all) and only Eject Warp Plasma II (or maybe boarding party III, not sure there) for their Commander rank, and have neither access to high end engineering- nor tactical abilities?

Yes there will always be some die-hard captains sticking with their choices but in the end everyone wants to be able to keep up performance wise with other players and with current restrictions those who stick 100% to their role/class, eg. tactical on escort, will have a significant advantage, as they can actually use high end abilities of their choice, fitting their career and ship class, which allows them to utilize the whole potential of their ships/characters.

I am all for retaining diversity. If people claim that being able to unlock all high end skills regardless of player career is a bad thing, ok fine, don't allow it. If people claim that being able to train other players' BOs with unlocked skills, allowing them to use those abilities, is a bad thing, ok fine, don't allow it.
But either of the two has to be implemented because if not, I can guarantee (and that is not some "full of myself"-know-it-all attitude) that we will have a ~80%+ rate of non-mix-match setups out there in no time.

To sum it up: the current restrictions will remove diversity as playing mix-match will result in a whole lot less player strength (due to preventing the use of both, player char strengths and ship strengths), pushing people towards the more "capable"/stronger "pure" combinations of career and ship class.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-07-2010, 06:38 AM
This point is moot, I just got my T4 escort skill to max and cannot train Attack Pattern Omega III to any of my officers. Oddly enough, I also can't train officers in jam sensors III despite the skill tooltips stating I should be able too.

Getting the skills fixed would actually make this argument worth having, as it currently stands I just wasted 3600 skill points on a skill that will be useless next tier.

oh, and I play an Engineer captain in an Escort and I love the extra survivability of my captains skills... why need more offensive output from a tac captain? I still kill Battleships in one pass but I can survive a pounding too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-07-2010, 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanctusmorti
This point is moot, I just got my T4 escort skill to max and cannot train Attack Pattern Omega III to any of my officers. Oddly enough, I also can't train officers in jam sensors III despite the skill tooltips stating I should be able too.
Actually you just pointed out one of the reasons why this discussion is exactly not moot.
The reason you cannot train Attack Pattern Omega III or Jam Sensors III to a BO is not because of a bug in the skills but due to one of the restrictions we are discussion here.

The skills themselves (presumably) work just fine, but you cannot train/use them because you are an engineering captain and those two skills are tactical- and science ones respectively.

As an engineering captain you however get the exclusive "right" to unlock and actually train level III skills to your engineering BOs such as Emergency Power to Shields or to Weapons III etc. or directed energy modulation III and so on. The issue with that though is (which is part of this discussion) that while you can unlock them as an engineering captain, you won't have any use for those unlocked abilities as your escort ship doesn't have an engineering BO station high enough to use them.

--> Bottom line: you can neither make use of Attack Pattern Omega III or Sensor Jam III that you unlocked, nor could you use your engineering captain specific unlocks if you invested points in them due to the restrictions we are discussion in this topic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-07-2010, 07:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
If that was literally true, you'd never see a Tactical Officer in anything but an Escort, never see an Engineer in anything but a Cruiser, etc. But that's not true, I've seen lots of people flying ships not of their class. My Tactical Officer, for example, loves his Cruiser. So you're literally wrong. It seem no one is forcing anyone to fly anything.

What you're arguing is that everyone should be the same. Then what's the point of having three different classes? Just for getting Attack Pattern Alpha, Sensor Scan, etc?
I've been trying out a cruiser on my Tac captain and I'll say this: it sucks. Evasive Maneuvers is like watching a turtle dodge cars on the interstate, attack pattern alpha is more like Sewing Patthern Alpha as you could knit a sweater before you could swing those bricks around.

Forced no, twisted arm yes.

And this is another skill cap argument, theres been a 500 page thread covering the highlights of why it is wrong based on the way the game is built.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-07-2010, 07:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
If that was literally true, you'd never see a Tactical Officer in anything but an Escort, never see an Engineer in anything but a Cruiser, etc. But that's not true, I've seen lots of people flying ships not of their class. My Tactical Officer, for example, loves his Cruiser. So you're literally wrong. It seem no one is forcing anyone to fly anything.

What you're arguing is that everyone should be the same. Then what's the point of having three different classes? Just for getting Attack Pattern Alpha, Sensor Scan, etc?
A counterpoint is that despite some of us being in CB/OB a lot haven't and the game hasn't been out long enough the best setups to be known and those people may end up regretting it a little or rerolling. I'm playing it safe doing sci/sci atm, later I will make a tac/escort fed and eng/cru kling.

I think they should just let us train and trade BOs in abilities, it'd add a bit of extra fun (like trading pokemon or something I guess) and improve the economy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-07-2010, 11:46 AM
Judging by the general lack of interest in this topic we indeed have to wait some more weeks until a larger part of the player base starts running into this issue and becomes aware of it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-07-2010, 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennyson360
Just make some friends. They can train your crew for you, and you can train theirs.
Nope, that functionality is not in the game. Cryptic has either dropped that idea, or just hasn't added it to the game yet. The ability to do that would help, but I support the idea of letting your character train any skill unlocked regardless of whether or not it is your primary career path.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-07-2010, 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral-Flint View Post
Judging by the general lack of interest in this topic we indeed have to wait some more weeks until a larger part of the player base starts running into this issue and becomes aware of it.
And we will probably never get a response from devs either.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-07-2010, 02:41 PM
Hey, I made a thread about suggestions for change to the BO system -- if anyone wants to write up a proposal on how you'd want it changed, we should merge it into one mega-idea, for which there will be no way of stopping it!

Yeah, anyhow, shameless plug for my thread in my sig.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-07-2010, 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral-Flint View Post
Judging by the general lack of interest in this topic we indeed have to wait some more weeks until a larger part of the player base starts running into this issue and becomes aware of it.
yeah, unfortonately its true.

when people got their first t3 ship, they will start to mention.
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